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NFHS Pre-Meet Notes vs. Five-Alive Rotation

Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2012 12:59 am
by Mister Ed
Is it not enough to have to fight the stupidity and ambiguity in the NFHS rule book?
Now they are going out of their way to spread it to other published material. A second front—just what I needed. :(

regarding the just-2012 NFHS/USATF Pre-Meet notes http://www.usatf.org/groups/officials/newsletters/

However, unlike the other rules codes, the added jumper is placed at the end of the order instead of replacing the other jumper in the order. ......Here is an example using the NFHS rules: there are 20 jumpers (A-T) jumping at a height. The first five jumpers are A, B, C, D, and E. A, B, D, and E miss their first jump; C makes her first jump. F is added to the order. So, the order is now A, B, D, E, and F.


The part about NFHS being different and adding F after E instead of in C’s place is purely a misguided opinion or interpretation by the author.

You can quickly see how this messes things up because D and E immediately wind up jumping every 4th instead of 5th.


D X4 O8
E X5 X9 X13


There is nothing in NFHS book to justify running it different than the rest of the world. (e.g. just like the McGloin slideshow that was in my clinic or USATF Best Practices http://www.usatf.org/groups/officials/files/resources/field-events/Vertical-Jumps-Five-Alive-Jan2010.pdf or the example in NCAA rule 6-4-3).


It is recommended when starting a new height and there are eight or fewer (total) competitors remaining in competition, that the continuing flight (5-alive) procedure be abandoned and the competitors be called in the order they appear on the event card/sheet.


The articles recommendation of “abandon at 8 or less” is a hard rule in NCAA (albeit a flawed one in my opinion) and is totally unaddressed in NFHS. I would not do it outside of NCAA rules--although I know of other officials that don't mind it. (As an aside, the explanation of how to implement the "NCAA end game" when 8 remain is flawed in both the USATF Best Practice and NCAA Rulebook. I guess this is just my opinion but I'll prove it if requested). (Also note that USATF, to their credit, abandons 5-alive at the end of the height---not in mid-height).

It gets worse. I just looked at Case Book 7.4.10.

CONTINUING FLIGHT PROCEDURE
7.4.10 ...... For instance, if there was a grouping of five, Nos. 1, 2, 3, 4 and 5 would start at a given height;
if No. 1 was successful on the first attempt, No. 6 would then follow No. 5. If No.
1 missed and Nos. 2, 3, 4 and 5 were successful, No. 1 would take his or her second
turn, followed by Nos. 5 and 6 for their first attempts. This would continue throughout the competition. As participants are eliminated, simply move the next contestant to fill the gap. This procedure maintains a high level of interest and
eliminates long delays.


The case example is totally discredited since it has #5 taking his first attempt after he already cleared it ...but... I will hold them to their statement: “simply move the next contestant to fill the gap” which is how it should be.

This year’s rule changes simply goes from “three to five” to “no less than five”---which is fine. The rest of the write-up baffles me and undermines the understanding of what is already a confusing concept.

Re: NFHS Pre-Meet Notes vs. Five-Alive Rotation

Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2012 8:41 pm
by Vaultref
Their change is no longer a true 5-alive. Not sure what to call it. Personally, it's just plain wrong. Don't know who submitted this request, but I suppose that's not important other than to may say he/she was unable to the call the true 5-alive way. I for one could teach "current" method in about 5 minutes and have that person feel good about working it.
I'm sticking with the current way until my area's spring meeting in March.

Maybe between the time of the interpretors meeting held (week ago?) and the start of the outdoor seasons there will be an official interpretation to do a 5-alive as most of us have been doing for quiet a while.

I do know this, there will be some words published on when to abandon the 5-alive rotation. That was discussed at this meeting and has been a rule request change for at least the past four or more years.
It will not be within a height.

Re: NFHS Pre-Meet Notes vs. Five-Alive Rotation

Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2012 10:49 pm
by Mister Ed
I do need to correct myself on one thing. The authors recommendation to "abandon at 8" was for in-between heights. I was responding as if it was an NCAA-style mid-height recommendation.

I have no problem with an in-between height abandon rule, but I am set against a mid-height abandon. Good to read from VaultRef that mid-height was not being considered.

Re: NFHS Pre-Meet Notes vs. Five-Alive Rotation

Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2012 10:55 pm
by Mister Ed
Vaultref wrote:Their change is no longer a true 5-alive. Not sure what to call it.


Fortunately, there really is no rule change driving their explanation. The author just (mis)interprets it---and did so even before the this years minor change to get rid of "three to five" language.

Re: NFHS Pre-Meet Notes vs. Five-Alive Rotation

Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2012 8:19 pm
by Vaultref
Mister Ed wrote:
Vaultref wrote:Their change is no longer a true 5-alive. Not sure what to call it.


Fortunately, there really is no rule change driving their explanation. The author just (mis)interprets it---and did so even before the this years minor change to get rid of "three to five" language.


Abandonment discussion was for between heights, not during a height.

If you could, send me a PM regarding who wrote this.. I have a pretty good idea who it was and if so, I'll make every effort to get this rectifived before the outdoor meeting and season starts.
I hate it.

Re: NFHS Pre-Meet Notes vs. Five-Alive Rotation

Posted: Fri Feb 10, 2012 2:49 am
by Mister Ed