Charlies Challenge

[altius]

Sorry - got the conversion wrong -she has already jumped 9 and I am hoping for something better in March. A basketball player not a gymnast, which I see as a bonus. So Charlie we will have to compare notes as they develop.

[altius]

The point I was trying to make Charlie, amid all the discussion about 19' jumpers, possible world records and the almost inevitable bull dust in the Advanced section of the coaches discussions, is that some of us are still spending our time introducing youngsters to this sport. I realise we can never compete with you guys but we enjoy it just as much as you do.

[ADTF Academy]

The simple post shows Charlie doesn't know anything about what elites are doing in the Pole Vault or how challenging it is in comparison to new athletes who advance quickly for a reason. They are new!!! Linking taking a guy to 17' or woman to 14' to be the same as a guy to 19' or woman to 16' is sad really. Totally disrespects the challenge of jumping that high IMO.

Not to mention only 4 woman in history have jumped 16'. Too funny!!!! Yep 4.88 is so easy.


The number of woman gripping over 14'6" in the entire word is on maybe 1 hand....


The number of guys gripping over 16'6" in the entire world is maybe on 2 hands....


Good luck! How about show true skill and take a guy grip 4.80 and teach him how to grip 5.05 while still jumping high. So many elements of the jump change.


Half the very battle of gripping that high is can it be done without losing efficiency in the jump. The room for error on being out of position at takeoff is greatly increased. Having the right pit and box set up becomes even more important. If the box is shallow or the pit set up restricts the bend than everything is thrown off. There is a reason people only jump at certain meets with certain set ups especially if they have high grips.

There is so many small points that go unknown with the difference between a high end elite athlete and developmental new vaulters.

I guess thats the easy part about a message board anyone can post something with no evidence but the words they type.

Charlie or anyone who thinks it is so easy. I present a challenge to you if it's that easy to get a man or woman to jump high than put your money were your mouth is and show us. I am guessing if someone said hey I'm the man/woman at coaching I can take anyone to an elite world class level. What I am going to do is give an Athlete a base salary of $40,000 to come train with me. I know I can make you the top dog. Put in a stipulation that you get all their prize money till you get your investment back. If you think it's so easy to jump 5.80 or 4.88 than put your money on the line. I'm sure there would be athletes who would jump on that offer.

Hate to give you the bad news though only maybe 1-3 guys in the US last year made over $40,000 in prize money last year. That doesn't take into account travel expense to go compete so I'd be safe to say maybe 2 guys profited over $30,000 last year in the US. If you take out club and national funding to foreign athletes I'd guess less than 10 men and 10 woman in the entire world profited over $40,000 last year off the pole vault.

If you can get a guy to jump 5.80 every meet sadly I don't even know if you would make your money back. Unless he did it at the World Championship and medaled. Did I mention no one pays travel for coaches so that would come out of your pocket book as well. There are few to no shoe contracts so you would just be jumping for the fun of it if you stay state side. Hotel bills, pole travel costs, training costs and therapy charges are 100% on the athlete to pay for. No help out there for athletes.

Personally you would be gambling your money away......

If it so easy put your money where your mouth is. If not stick to club coaching it's what you seem to be doing very well at. Promote the elites to give the youngsters someone to cheer for.

[charlie]

Eat your heart out! Money means nothing to me! Enhansing young peoples lives does! I wouldnt take a Div. 1 job if it was offered, and further more i don,t take orders from anyone ! I can do what I say till someone proves me wrong!!!!

[ADTF Academy]

I wasn't given an order I was stating how you could go about proving your bold statements are in fact TRUE!!!!!!


Trust me no one is doing this sport for the money... It doesn't exist. I would bet club coaches working with kids make way more money.

I'll take your comment as point taken.


Good luck to your youth club program.

[altius]

Very polite old son and very patient. As someone who I know is grafting away trying to help athletes break through to the absolute top level it must be pretty disappointing to see folk telling us how easy it is if we really knew what we were doing. But as they say "Ignorance is bliss" and on an open forum we get it from both ends of the spectrum. Armchair theorists who wouldn't know what to do with a talented athlete (probably wouldn't even recognise the talent in the first place) and practicing coaches with little experience of even working with 5.40 jumpers and so with no understanding of the exponential challenge you face as athletes improve. Getting to 5.60 is easy enough but every centimetre above 5.80 is about as easy to achieve as the last 400 metres on Everest. In fact it may be that more have achieved that goal than have progressed to 5.90 far less 6.00 in the vault.

[KirkB]

I don't think we need to rant on Charlie much more. Although he occasionally lets his ego get in the way of his enthusiasm, I love what he's doing at the club level. Lots of PRs by all his kids for him to brag about! So what if his methods are different than ours, and so what if he's a stubborn old fart. His heart is in the right place, he's devoted his life to his kids, and he does get results. Yes, the results might be better if he listened to a bit of reason once in awhile, but the PV world is better off with this energetic coach (and still a vaulter!) than without him. Give him a break!

The new poster boys for outrageous claims are the father/son team of Thomas and Chris Toledo, and their Air Strike PV Method on their howtopolevault.com site. See: http://www.polevaultpower.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=38&t=44534.

Kirk

[altius]

If you read my post Kirk B you will see I mentioned no names - just a general comment about folk who think this business is easy. Yes it is easy up to a certain level but if you coach good athletes you soon find out that it gets exponentially more difficult. Just the issue of injury and illness as you walk the fine line between doing enough training and too much is something that many coaches have not experienced, but I bet Danny has. I am not going to bother with other 'experts'. I have seen too many folk make outrageous claims over the years and when I challenge them I never get any visual evidence of the performances they claim for their athletes.

As long as anyone can hang up their shingle as a pole vault coach with no need for assessment or proper accreditation this problem of folk being than earlier than, better than, an improved version of Petrov/Bubka will remain with us. Never forget that 'snake oil' salesmen were a fact of life in the American west -that is the films I saw as a kid are to be believed. They probably still exist in every aspect of life so why not the vault. However with my background in teacher education I really would like to see some kind of assessment required of anyone who puts their hand up to coach this event -of all events!

[KirkB]

If you read my post Kirk B you will see I mentioned no names ...

I did read your post, and I don't disagree with anything you say. I know you didn't mention Charlie's name, but you did post in a thread named "Charlies Challenge", thus there is an inference to Charlie's outrageous claim of how he could make a 19-foot vaulter out of anyone that could grip 16-6.

Charlie does more good than harm. The promoters of the Air Strike Method (Toledo & Son) are the real snake-oil salesmen you're referring to. They are miles apart.

Charlie is an honest-to-goodness PV coach that has a huge ego and his own way of coaching. Other than that, he's a great guy! And Charlie does have a track record of coaching champions at the HS / club level. Just ask him!

And rumor has it that he's a better golfer than you too!

Cheers!

p.s. Charlie, I love the enthusiasm that you bring to our sport!

Kirk

[altius]

Shaun the sheep is a better golfer than me - but ask Phil Erikson and Shaun Brown if I can play table tennis!

Funny thing in all this is that nobody has asked and answered the question here, "How does Oodnawoopwoop University- or some such name -produce 17' vaulters? By recruiting 18 footers! I have heard this story so often when I go to the states I am wondering if there is any truth in it!