PoleVaultPower.com

PLACE ATHLETE NAME YR AFFILIATION MARK
1 CHELSEA JOHNSON USA 4.55m 14-11
2 BECKY HOLLIDAY USA 4.45m 14-7 ¼
3 APRIL STEINER-BENNETT USA 4.45m 14-7 ¼
3 LACY JANSON USA 4.45m 14-7 ¼
5 MELINDA OWEN USA 4.25m 13-11 ¼
6 JILLIAN SCHWARTZ ISR 4.25m 13-11 ¼
7 GAO SHUYING CHN 4.25m 13-11 ¼

Did you see Chelsea's bail at the next height up, second attempt? SUPER scary... fully inverted, then comes back down but keeps holding the pole... rebends the thing like CRAZY and rides it into the pit... then the tip slips out the back of the box and the pole slapped her pretty good in the elbow.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pfKkW6_-KrA

has all the jumps
even the ones at the last height with the bail.. hope that doesn't happen to me any time soon

hey

good video..

interesting how a bad run (mostly stretching on the last 4/6 steps..can make a really good vaulter look less than average..

and a really good run, one or two times, can make a vaulter look like the physical potential they actually have...

dj

ps.. i guess what bothers me the most is the inconsistancy from jump to jump... even from the same vaulter..
think for a minute if a 100 and 110 hurdler had this problem... how successful would they be.. my question would be.. are they (hurdlers) better athletes or do they work very hard on the steps and speed of the steps.. 90% of the time.. as vaulters we work seem to work from the takeoff to the finish 90% of the time!!!!

Though I agree 100% with you, Pole Vault is unlike any other event in terms of putting your trust in a thin fiberglass pole.


Work with a young hurdler and what tends to happen? They are all over the place when they finally learn the hurdle can't really hurt them they gain confidence and just go all out.


You can't relate pole vault to this, in the end our brain gets in the way and if something feels or looks off we will adjust.... No matter how many times you work on your approach... A gust of wind, a noise, a weird sight in the corner of your eye. SO many variables come into a play when your running down the runway at top speed. We measure our spot by inches off at takeoff.. Long jump does too, but its a mark or a miss in the vault it could be a safe jump or bad one. This plays into the mind of every vaulter rather you will admit it or not.

Holy Crap!!
Haven't seen Lacy jump lately, but she looks like she has the potential to go 5.10-5.20!! Who is her coach? she is a beast, just needs to learn to vault

Ps.. i just edited my original.. 2:25 pm EST Feb 19, 2010.. happy birthday bill webb

..........................................

Good morning

ADTF your points are well taken… and the safety issue is greater than the long jump.. there are as many injuries in the hurdles as in the vault but the stats never seem to be put out there. I don’t know if there have been any deaths attributed to hurdles…

I have to tell a story about the 1984 Olympic trials… the wind in the LA stadium is extremely tricky.. Through the efforts of Guy Kochel and myself we did get to practice there. I did a 6 hour study of the wind during the time of the day for the vault and the Javelin, (Tom Petrenoff was throwing and was coached by my best friend). I actually did it twice, one morning and one afternoon session for prelims and finals. I had flags (ribbon on a stick) the length of the field every 10 yards.. with a friend/athlete recorders for each, recording the wind direction and wind intensity by the movement of the ribbon. We recorded every ? 5 to 10 minutes.. Interesting results.. Santa Anna’s, on shore, off shore…. I wanted to know the options of where we should put the pit. We could go either direction.

For prelims we set it up according to my data.. I think we had a day between prelims and finals, same as the games.. so on the day off, I was sitting with the USATF official that supposedly would make the final pit placement position decision... we were watching the long jump prelims together at the time…

I asked him where the pits would be for the PV final.. he went into this premadonna BS.. I said let me hang you over the top of the stadium and see if you’re a “premadonna”.. pole vaulters do that for fun and a challenge..

Since the long jump was going on I said.. “what if we dig a hole 20 feet deep and 20 feet wide in the long jump pit.. then ask the jumpers to jump?? All of them can clear 20 feet, right?? How many would jump? Including Carl Lewis!!!” He responded “well that’s stupid”.. I said not as “stupid” as asking the vaulters to jump in ridiculous wind condition and not even tell us where the pit will be so we will know what poles to bring or what adjustments we will have to make.. I said “The vaulters will jump and compete under the conditions you give them… Carl Lewis would make you move the stadium.. who’s the premadonna?”

I knew I wasn’t going to change his “mind set” but just wanted to know what poles we should bring, we could only bring 6 and the pit setup could easily change even those pole posibilities from hour to hour.

I was fortunate actually, I was asked to work the Olympic trials and Olympic games, since I was the only person they knew that had world class coaching experience and spoke Arabic. I was asked to work the warm-up/athlete control center area. That gave me access to the whole stadium, all the facilities and to an up-line Olympic officials that he didn’t have. The pit for the final would be set up according to the stadium seating and ticketing.. where did they “advertise” seating for the vault?? That’s where the pit would be for the final. Wind conditions would play no part in the decision.

Anyway.. I know this is getting a little long but I’m going to use this as a “teaching” moment. By reading what has already been said, by looking at the video and maybe by what I can “add” to the information will give all of us a little more understanding to the overall vault picture.

I do think the vault challenge is equal to the hurdle challenge and vise-versa.. same type of physics to over come and follow… hurdlers deal with wind, stride patterns, speed.. and ten barriers.

But you are right vaults are faced with possibly the greatest task of any event or any sport for that matter.. but I see several of those as equal. Gymnastics, snowboarding, water ski jumping and even hurdles... now the chance for a fatal out come may not be quit as great??

A hurdler has to run really fast, negotiate 10 hurdlers (barriers) and has a restricted distance to do this in. now they are not falling from 20 feet but they are going faster and may have just as “strong” of an impact to the track if they fall.

I ran hurdles, I’m 5-9 with an average inseam.. I ran 14.1… now this is where I learned that leg length did not dictate speed. If that was the case the long legged guys would always run faster and I would never get the 3 steps or run that fast.. neither things happened.. longer legs do help in the hurdles but ONLY because you don’t have to move the center of mass up and down as much over the hurdle, losing speed you have created on the start and in between.

What most hurlers and hurdle coaches don’t understand is that those millions of trail leg drills you do will do absolutely nothing to speed up your trail leg! The speed of your trail leg is determined by the force and trajectory of the hips at the point you LEAVE the track before the hurdle… you have to be accurate and fast to number one and accurate and fast to each and every one after... the only way it helps to "speed up" the trail leg is the "technical position" you move the leg through.

Do hurdlers ‘steer”, yes, and so do vaulters.. but the more accurate you are at maximum speed the less “steering” has to be done.. Less steering means less lose of speed… Bam..

The hurdler that is fastest and most precise at the first hurdle will potentially run faster. Remember Petrov himself said that “acceleration has an “increment” value.”

What vaulters can learn from hurdles is amazing. First you have a set distance to the first hurdle then an equal distance between. Two things come into play that a vaulter needs to learn from. The start of the approach run has to be precise and fast.. it has to be fast so you have the “potential” to get faster over the last 6 strides (increment value) into the takeoff.

Another thing you learn from hurdlers and from studying, Tellez, sprint data etc.. is about the “knee lift.” Hurdlers seem to “scuffle” or have less knee lift (high knees) but run fast. If you have studied the sprint data you will find that the top sprinters have LESS knee “lift” in the drive phase of the top sprinters, the angles are slightly less at the hip and knee and greater at the ankle than slower athletes. They get on and off the ground faster with less “up and down” of the COM.

Back to vaulters…. Vaulters not only have to deal with speed and accuracy very much like hurdlers.. But they do have to deal with speed (and balance/posture) with a pole in their hand AND they have to deal with the “correct” speed based on the size of pole and the grip on the pole!!!

What an unbelievable task… “premadonna’s???”.. Carl Lewis’s butty would shrivel up if he had to hit the board within 6 inches AND jump over a 20 foot deep, 20 foot wide hole in the ground.

So our run has to be accelerated from the first step but it has to be accurate (i.e. to the first hurdle) to the 6 step “mid’ and at the correct speed.

I have seen Lacy jump many times.. she and her coach are getting closer.. she is a studdett. I have monitored her mid for my own benefit many times… typically she was to far out.. had to stretch.. sinking mass.. overload the pole and ever if she completed the “jump” the pole over bent and she would go up poles… when she was in where she should be and got the feet down she still blew through the pole.. but if you don’t do that every time going to a bigger pole will again be a problem.

Here’s my teaching moment. Having a “mid” out from where it should be is a “Catch-22”.

The vaulter CANNOT increase the frequency the way it should be done.. so they never learn or “trust” that they CAN do it properly. So even when a vaulter happens to be “on” the correct mid, they will not “quicken” (same stride length but increased frequency- Petrov) and will step under.. when they step under .. they normally move back instead of “quickening” the strides and stretch and step under again over and over…more…. Practice does not make us perfect.. Perfect practice makes us “almost’ perfect.

So the run needs to be practiced.. from the first step… on the track with “speed”, acceleration to a consistent “mid” point and as high of a “frequency” rate as possible but still hit the stride lengths, marked by cones, that matches your speed and grip potential.

It’s just like a hurdler taking starts over 2/3 hurdles instead of running the whole flight..

If hurdlers can do it why can’t vaulters???

Several of these vaulters/athletes are as good as Isi..

Why is Shaun White the King on the board?? He does everything according to physics.. from the “set up” to the final trick and finish..

Don’t leave anything to chance.. if you want to be the best..

dj

'

Warning: Off-topic ... but hey, we're hosting the Games in VANCOUVER!

dj wrote: Why is Shaun White the King on the board?? He does everything according to physics.. from the “set up” to the final trick and finish..

No ... it's the aerodynamic qualities of his red mop ... like a flying squirrel!

Seriously tho ... it's his utter self-confidence and nerves of steel that allows him to even ATTEMPT tricks that others could not even fathom.

And yeh ... physics too.

Hmm ... the Flying Tomato would probably do well in PV ... he's as crazy as we are!

Kirk

KYLE ELLIS wrote:Haven't seen Lacy jump lately, but she looks like she has the potential to go 5.10-5.20!! Who is her coach? she is a beast, just needs to learn to vault

Brian Mondschein was helping coach her at this meet...as to her regular coach, I have no idea.

LHSvaulter wrote:

KYLE ELLIS wrote:Haven't seen Lacy jump lately, but she looks like she has the potential to go 5.10-5.20!! Who is her coach? she is a beast, just needs to learn to vault

Brian Mondschein was helping coach her at this meet...as to her regular coach, I have no idea.

Lacy is still training with Dennis Nobles at Florida State.