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tim mack or toby stevenson. we were arguing about this at practice. id say toby. what do you all think.

VTechVaulter wrote:tim mack or toby stevenson. we were arguing about this at practice. id say toby. what do you all think.

doesn't toby run like around 10 sec.? i dunno, i think toby looks like he runs much faster than tim.

Toby is probably a little faster. Hes probably running mid 9 m/s not 10. Mack's website says he ran 3.3 for a 30 with a flying start. Toby has gotten a lot faster in the last year.

zack wrote:Toby is probably a little faster. Hes probably running mid 9 m/s not 10. Mack's website says he ran 3.3 for a 30 with a flying start. Toby has gotten a lot faster in the last year.

I dont believe that unless he hopped on one leg.

I think that overall, Toby is faster.

This is what I believe after watching both guys.
Hitting top speed quicker: Toby
Maintaining top speed longer: Tim
Faster speed at take-off:Toby

While Tim has more endurance at running at top speed, Toby has more control and a faster take-off.

http://www.polevaultpower.com/6mclub.php This chart has the velocities over the last 5 meters for all the 6 meter jumpers. Unforunately Toby hasn't sent in his info yet but I have a hard time believing that hes moving faster than Bubka.

Visual observations don't mean s***. The only way to know who is truly faster at the critical points is through empirical evidence, and thanks to Dr. Peter McGinnis of the State University of New York, College at Cortland, working in conjuction with USATF Scientific Services Program, we have that evidence.

Every year at outdoor nationals, Dr. McGinnis sets up high speed cameras across from designated points marked on the runway at 15, 10, and 5 meters from the box. During replay, he can count the number of frames between these marked points by pausing the camera and frame advancing, focusing on the vaulters center of gravity. Then, he plugs these numbers into a mathematical formula which can calculate meters per second speed. He presents his data on each elite directly to them at Reno each January. In 2003, I coached an elite in Reno and received a copy of his velocity studies from 2002 nationals. Here is the data on Toby and Tim from that meet:

Fastest times in meters per second:
15-10m from the box: Tim's fastest - 8.96m/s (5.74m bar clearance)
Toby's fastest - 9.06m/s (5.74m bar clearance)

10-5m from the box: Tim's fastest - 9.13m/s (5.79m miss)
Toby's fastest - 9.23m/s (5.74 make + 5.79 miss)

Bear in mind that this was one meet, over 2 years ago, and injuries, training, environment, illness, and several other factors can play a part. Still, on the average, Toby was faster than Tim in this meet, yet they jumped the same height. Is he still faster now? Guess we'll have to wait until Dr. M's 2004 Trials velocities report comes out.

Other interesting things Dr. McGinnis found:

Tim's takeoff angle at 5.74m: 16.4 degrees
Toby's takeoff angle at 5.74: 19.6 degrees

Tim's horizontal velocity at takeoff: 7.74m/s
Toby's horizontal velocity at takeoff: 7.41m/s

Tim's vertical velocity at takeoff: 2.28m/s
Toby's vertical velocity at takeoff: 2.64m/s

Tim's resultant velocity at takeoff: 8.07m/s
Toby's resultant velocity at takeoff: 7.86m/s

Toby's runway velocity and vertical velocity at takeoff are higher than Tim's, yet Tim's horizontal velocity at takeoff is higher than Toby's, which aalso led to Tim's resultant velocity being higher than Toby's. So in laymen's terms, Toby was bringing it but losing more of it at takeoff than Tim was. They both jumped the same height though.

Highest velocities from 10-5m in this meet:
Jeff Hartwig: 9.45m/s (5.84 winning jump)
Nick Hysong: 9.37m/s (5.84 3rd miss)
Russ Buller: 9.37 m/s (5.54 2nd miss)

Lowest velocities from 10-5m in this meet:
Jeremy Scott: 8.36m/s (5.54 1st miss)
Adam Keul: 8.57m/s (5.44 2nd miss)
Several at 8.70m/s

Fastest women's velocity from 10-5m in this meet:
Stacy Dragila: 8.57m/s (4.82 1st miss)

Slowest women's velocity from 10-5m in this meet:
Megan Westfall: 6.94m/s (4.10 2nd miss)

Disclaimer: these numbers are not posted to berate, belittle, glorify, or inflate any of the vaulters mentioned. They are simply empirical data listed for educational purposes. Once again, remember that this was one meet, over 2 years ago, and not a measure of any one vaulter's career or overall ability.

now thats info!!

lonestar wrote:velocities from 10-5m in this meet:
... Adam Keul: 8.57m/s (5.44 2nd miss)
... Stacy Dragila: 8.57m/s (4.82 1st miss)

VERY INTERESTING!!!! Not that it means anything. It just provokes a lot of thought, that they both had the same speed.

Carolina Extreme wrote:

lonestar wrote:velocities from 10-5m in this meet:
... Adam Keul: 8.57m/s (5.44 2nd miss)
... Stacy Dragila: 8.57m/s (4.82 1st miss)

VERY INTERESTING!!!! Not that it means anything. It just provokes a lot of thought, that they both had the same speed.

yes it is. physics says that if they have the same velocity at take off they should be able to clear the same height.

VTechVaulter wrote:yes it is. physics says that if they have the same velocity at take off they should be able to clear the same height.

Not really... Adam has a huge height advantage over Stacy. That gives him a better takeoff angle which allows him to grip higher than her.

VTechVaulter wrote:

Carolina Extreme wrote:

lonestar wrote:velocities from 10-5m in this meet:
... Adam Keul: 8.57m/s (5.44 2nd miss)
... Stacy Dragila: 8.57m/s (4.82 1st miss)

VERY INTERESTING!!!! Not that it means anything. It just provokes a lot of thought, that they both had the same speed.

yes it is. physics says that if they have the same velocity at take off they should be able to clear the same height.

All things being equal, yes. Adam's a big guy though, and probably gripping 2+ feet higher than Stacy, and has a higher center of gravity, thus a shorter distance to go to get to the bar, so he has advantages. Remember also, that that was his slowest approach in that one meet, and he's jumped near 5.70, while that was Stacy's fastest approach and she's a 4.80 jumper. Stacy is much faster than all the other Elite U.S. women though.