PoleVaultPower.com

Hi everyone, first time posting and I have a couple questions. (Sorry if I leave anything out or don't follow the format of this site)
Okay, so I am a Junior in High School who went from vaulting 8'6" Sophomore Year to 11' in the second meet of this season. I have no idea how it happened, since I don't do indoor season (I'm a swimmer) and haven't practiced at all in between. At the meet where I got my 11' PR, I was vaulting on a 12' 140 Rocket with a grip about 4" from the top and 6 lefts. However, since I was "maxing out the pole" my coach said that she wanted me to move up to a new pole. Being that my school is small, the next pole up was a 14' 150 Skypole. After a couple of practices using it, I just couldn't get into the pit. I was gripping at around 13' from 5 lefts and I landed over the box a number of times and even was catapulted down back down the runway one time. I had absolutely no pole speed at the top, and for the first time in my life, pole vaulting became scary. My coach said it was a lack of speed and planting late, and I agree with her, but in reality, I was just getting comfortable with the 12' Rocket and I felt as though I was doing the same work with the Skypole as I did with the Rocket. So I guess my real question for today is should I stay with the Rocket which I am way more familiar with or move up to the Skypole? Or should I move up to the Skypole and just use a low grip? Another thing is that when I was attempting 11'6 with the Rocket, I was starting to get some really natural bend that I had never experienced before. With the Skypole, it's extremely stiff and I feel like I'm under my plant all the time. I couldn't even get enough speed to clear a 10' bungee in practice. Any advice you guys could offer would be tremendously helpful and I would appreciate it. Thanks!

First, how much do you weight? As a general rule of thumb, for every six inches you move down from the label on pole, you add ten pound to the weight. So,
the next pole you need is a 12' 145 or 150 to be close to the pole you are now. I would see if a school nearby can lend you a pole.

As for the moving up your grip on the 14' 150 to 13' is dangerous and you should not continue with this. You will get hurt. I move my vaulters up slowly, one fist at a time so they can get comfortable with the added height. You should never move up 16" ever just to get on another pole. You will get hurt.

I would be happy to talk with your coach and explain what I have said. Just have her PM me.

Please be safe and listen to what I have written.

A smart vaulter makes the best vaulter and lives to talk about his PRs. If you are now clearing 11' on the 12' pole and have just started to bend the pole (and not having a reasonably bigger pole to move to), you will be good to continue on the 140. Keep working your approach and take off getting comfortable with the technique. If, and when, you begin to bend the pole more (not the objective......the results of a good approach and take off) you can conversely move your hand down a little on the same 140 pole. As noted in a prior post, the weight dynamics change as you move your hand down the pole. Additionally, a change you can make on the 140 pole is to go from the 6 lefts to 5 lefts; you might try this fix first. You can still improve to 11'-6" with the same 140 pole. Curiously, why go to a bigger pole, the 150, and shorten the approach from 6 lefts to 5? I do get the concern factor. If it is a necessity to move to the 14' 150 pole, try 7 lefts holding at 13' or 13'-6". With a good approach and take off, one can vault on a pole 20-30 lbs over his weight. If you start doing this, ask your coach to give you a shoulder tap to help get you in the pit. In the end, you are wise to be cautious.

Buy or borrow a pole that makes sense to progress to. (There are usually some good deals here on this site in the "Sales Forum": viewforum.php?f=10)

Get a 13' 140 maybe. A 2' increase is not feasible - you will eventually get hurt enough or frustrated enough or psyched out enough to have to stop vaulting, which we don't want!

Thanks for the replies everyone! So here's an update, my coach managed to find a 13' 150 Skypole and I'm wondering where I should grip on it, or if I should even move up to it yet?

vquestpvc, I was under the impression that the higher grip you have, the higher you will go. I'm sure you're more knowledgeable than me in this matter, but why lower your grip? Also, I was 5 stepping on the 150 because it was in practice, and I normally 6-step in meets, where I've only used the 140 so far.

vcpvcoach, I weigh 138 lbs and am 5'11". What would be the benefit of moving to a heavier rated pole with the same length?

Thanks again!

Holding down, as noted in another post by pvcpcoach, will decrease the flex. Since you wrote you were "maxing out the pole" (which usually means getting too much penetration), moving down a fist or so on the pole stiffens the effects it gives you allowing you to get more vertical without so much penetration and you should still be able to clear 11'-6". As I tell my vaulters: "it isn't about the pole, but the pole vaulter". Which essentially means that the vaulter must choose the right pole for the circumstances which can also mean manipulating the grip height or number of steps. It is even more important to learn this at a high school with limited funds and poles. Regardless of what pole is used, it will always be about the approach and take off. Hey, before fiberglass poles, vaulting was done on stiff, straight poles and those individuals could clear heights of 13'-14'. Would you prefer to clear 11' with a pretty bend in the pole or clear an ugly 13' with no bend?

vquestpvc wrote: ... ask your coach to give you a shoulder tap to help get you in the pit. In the end, you are wise to be cautious.

Yikes! I think this is bad advice. Even worse advice if your coach is not experienced in doing this. Bad, bad, bad advice.

I agree with the "you are wise to be cautious" point, but I would NOT characterize a shoulder tap as being cautious! LOWERING YOUR GRIP and/or increasing your lefts is much more cautious than a shoulder tap!

It sounds like you're on the right track with the 13' 150. Don't be too anxious to raise your grip until your technique has improved. You were gripping 11-8 on the 12' 140, from 6 lefts. On the 13' 150, you should grip at 11-8, and you should stay at 6 lefts (just to keep TWO of the THREE variables consistent - grip/steps/polesize).

I realize that you already have the 13' 150 and will not have the opportunity to re-do this, but for any other vaulters in a similar situation, it's important that you not change too many variables at once, else your body won't know what to do when the pole hits the plant box. The 11-8 grip that I recommended is ONLY for the very first attempt with the 13' 150 - to get the feel of it, and gain confidence that you can roll the pole over and land in the Coaches Box.

Staying with the 150, next step is to lower the grip if you didn't land far enough into the pit, or raise the grip if you landed PAST the Coach's Box. One fist (4") at a time. Once you think you have determined a good "grip" height, next step is to decide on the number of steps. So if you're blowing thru your pole (landing past the Coach's Box) then reduce your steps by one left. If you're stalling out (landing between the plant box and the Coach's Box) then increase your steps by one left.

I have advised you to vary the grip first, and then the number of steps, but you can actually adjust them in either order - just don't adjust them both at once. This is important, because your body gets used to the feel of the pole hitting the plant box on takeoff, and if TWO things change, then you won't be prepared for the "jarring" (jerking that you may feel on your top arm's shoulder joint) that might occur if your technique is a bit off (which it more than likely will be). For example, when you raise your grip by a fist, you need to have your top hand planted high above your head a split second earlier, because your takeoff will need to be about 3" further away from the box and if it's not, you'd better be ready for the shoulder jar.

Likewise, if you've added one left to your run, you'll be going slightly faster, so you again need to react faster on takeoff (or your plant will be late and not fully stretched up, for example). So only adjust one variable at a time.

In addition to the "jarring" issue, if you change TWO variables instead of ONE, you won't know which of the 2 had the most effect on your last attempt. So you won't know whether to stick with the same grip and change the number of lefts; or (alternatively) stick with the same number of lefts and increase or decrease your grip. Changing just one variable at a time gets you to the optimal combination of grip and lefts on a certain pole with less attempts. You find out faster the effect of adjusting your grip or your steps, so you waste less time and energy expirementing.

During the course of a single practice, it's OK to experiment with 2-3 different grips and 2-3 different lefts, just as long as each is done on a separate attempt.

By this INCREMENTAL and ITERATIVE experimentation process, you will be a SAFE vaulter and live to vault again. (I don't mean to scare-monger you, but you can't continue to enjoy vaulting while your leg is in a cast. Trust me - I learned the hard way!) And you will make steady progress FORWARDS and UPWARDS without any ACCIDENTS or setbacks.

I do not consider lowering your grip by a fist or reducing your number of lefts as a setback. That's just a smart, minor adjustment - depending on how you feel each day (tiredness, wind resistance, nagging injuries, etc).

A setback is when you UNEXPECTEDLY stall out - especially a stallout where you fall in the plant box area or way off to the side of the pit. Each time you do one of those, that's a SETBACK, and you will LOSE personal confidence on your next vault. Besides the safety and confidence factors, each setback wastes time and energy, and worsens your technique.

Instead, you want every jump to be a positive experience, from which you GAIN confidence and so that you UNDERSTAND how your body reacted on takeoff. This is what you need to do to GAIN confidence and LEARN TO VAULT with good technique.

Now, isn't this process MUCH BETTER than the "quick fix" coach tapping idea? There are no QUICK FIXES in PV! It's hard work, and you improve by slow but steady incremental, iterative improvement (steady progress) - a vault at a time and a day at a time!

Kirk Bryde

A "tap" is not a quick fix. It is used to help a vaulter gain confidence. I am perplexed as to why a coach shouldn't assist a vaulter learning to get into the pit. As a prior gymnastic coach, it is common practice to spot athletes through skill development. So why not in the pole vault? The straight forward motion in the vault is certainly easier to spot than spotting a beginner learning a walkover on the balance beam. A "tap" is a simple spot which can give an athlete that needed confidence.

If we want to discuss "scare tactics", no one should run the hurdles. More people get hurt learning to hurdle and continuing to hurdle than any other track event. At the last meet we had 3 athletes fell and were injured. Not one vaulter had a problem! This isn't to suggest that there shouldn't be caution when learning to vault, but we shouldn't make it seem so dangerous that the general public views it as such and only "crazies" vault.

You do not even know the weight and height (or more to the point, the strength) of Nathan's female coach. Nathan is 5-11 and weighs 138. Even if his coach was skilled at tapping, it might be totally inappropriate due to a difference in their body sizes. But even if she's strong enough, I consider tapping as a "crutch" that really doesn't fix anything, and puts both the vaulter's and the coach's safety at risk. I could enumerate the reasons, but I believe that there's already plenty of threads on PVP re this topic.

Lowering the grip has none of the risks of a tap, but plenty more upside, as I explained.

Re comparing to the balance beam, you are talking about a relatively light female athlete that is relatively low to the ground, and is not wearing any spikes. This is quite different than a MALE athlete (usually larger) wearing spikes and attempting a vault with a grip of perhaps 10-12 feet or more. No comparison. In Nathan's case, he's gripping at least 12-8.

I appreciate that you may have been quite successful as a gymnastics coach in SPOTTING your gymnasts on various apparatus. However, this does not transfer well to PV, but I suppose your "old habits" die hard. A TAP is NOT a SPOT! A tap is a push on the back or butt of the vaulter that actually changes his natural swing. It makes his swing feel artificial, and it's a crutch. Worse yet, if the vaulter is not expecting the tap, his safety may be in jeopardy. Or if he is expecting a tap, but the coach fails to tap him (for whatever reason) then he may also be in jeopardy. Enough said.

Re comparing PV to hurdles, you are a bit out of order. A vaulter probably has more chance of getting killed on his way home from a meet than in the meet itself, yet it's senseless to compare the two and say that therefore no one should be in a private passenger vehicle to or from the meet.

There is also a big difference in the seriousness of a hurdler injury compared to a vaulter injury. Altho it may be true (I don't know) that there's more MINOR injuries in hurdles, it is false that there's more MAJOR injuries or deaths in hurdles per participant. How many deaths are you aware of in the past 2 decades due to tripping over a hurdle?

We as coaches and PV aficionados should be taking pride in the safety of our sport and governing our own actions in the best way to keep our sport safe.

vquestpvc wrote: ... we shouldn't make it seem so dangerous that the general public views it as such and only "crazies" vault.

What do you mean by this? It is the "crazies" that we DON'T want in our sport, because they get injured and give our sport a bad name. We are not "making it seem so dangerous ...". Unless you're a coach standing too close to the plant box for his/her own safety, and the safety of the vaulter. Now THAT'S crazy!

I am also curious to know how many female vault coaches are crazy enough to tap their vaulters. Is anyone aware of ANY, or is it just male coaches that are crazy enough to tap?

Kirk Bryde

Ok, I must admit I am a fraud. For the past 30 years I have stolen from other pole vault coaches regarding teaching technique. I have taken athletes to numerous pole vault camps which feature some of the best names in the business; some nationally renown and others with a very successful pole vault clubs. To the point, the "tap" has been featured by numerous coaches at camps. And make something clear, a "tap' is not a "push". It is merely a touch on the shoulder (did not note the butt) to make a connection to instill confidence in the athlete and most certainly should only be used if the coach too is comfortable with it. Perhaps a bigger problem are coaches that are not fully competent to teach the event. And by the way, that same "light female athlete" in gymnastics in many cases becomes the coach that will spot.

Further I must come clean by noting that I primarily write in this venue to have my thoughts critiqued by individuals like yourself. However, you have left me without any clear basis for your thoughts. And further, it is resented that you might suggest that I would put any individuals in harms way. I may not be the best pole vault coach, but it isn't for a lack of learning the event and trying to teach it safely. If someone is opposed to a "tap" or lacks the confidence as a coach as to why use it, then don't.

I believe there was a young man who died a few years ago after warming up with taps... Got stood up by the pole - go figure!

Seems to be a better idea to grip down and build REAL confidence while practicing with a NATURAL vaulter-pole system: the kind of system that exists in a competition! Perhaps some will get away fine with taps, but how might they have done if they had gripped down or went to a softer pole? Maybe better.

As noted...........then don't. I'm always willing to learn so please provide me with precise details regarding the vaulter's death; for example where, the year it occurred and level. Thank you.