PoleVaultPower.com

how far from petrov model do you think this guy is? Obviously is short run, but I would be interested to hear feedback. Many of his drop attributes are very Petrov inspired.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N1_kbmqlmT8

I can't name this vaulter (presumably on the U. Tennessee track team), but my advice applies no matter which one he is ...

tennpolevault wrote:how far from petrov model do you think this guy is? ...

I like his takeoff and body posture immediately after takeoff! Nice and upright! (Although his form seemed to digress as the session went on.)

It LOOKS like his takeoff is a free one (hard to tell on YouTube), his C is on the money, and his swing is ALMOST pure Petrov, but for some reason he tucks in his trail leg before he extends it again. He probably got into the habit of doing this to keep the pole rolling forward - especially on a heavier pole than what he's using in the vid - BEFORE he learned to swing properly. But now that he's demonstrating a nice swing and landing well into the pit, he should shed that habit.

On THAT pole, the worst that can happen if it doesn't roll as far is that he'll land closer to the box. But he'll still land safely in the coaches box. In fact, if he downswings like hell (as he should and could), he's in danger of either blowing over the entire pit, or breaking the pole. He'll have to upsize his poles as soon as he gets the hang of this.

You could call that slight tuck a deviation from Petrov, or you could call that a "style". I think it's a flaw, and the more he works on accelerating his downswing, the less he will find that he needs to tuck. If he's a freshman, then it's not totally surprising or unexpected that he would do this - it's a very common flaw.

As it is, there's a couple issues ...

With this short run, soft pole, he's landing at the back of the coaches box. That's OK for this drill FOR NOW, but this now affords him the opportunity to swing his trail leg longer (without tucking), and getting inverting EARLIER before he extends.

Right now, with the sub-optimal (i.e. slow) downswing and by tucking, the pole gets ahead of him, resulting in little or no pushoff. (Perhaps he's not even trying to complete his vaults, but if the bottom half of the vault is executed properly - according to Petrov - then you'll fly off the top without hardly trying.)

I expect some divided opinions on whether his downswing is too slow or not. At first glance, it looks quite fast. However, in my experience, no matter how fast it is, there's always room for improvement in the speed of the downswing. Speed it up even more, and the outcome will amaze you!

And ironically, swinging the trail leg long - for a longer period of time - will actually give you MORE time to fully invert (without tucking!).

Hooker is pure Petrov in this respect - watch his vids, and you won't see any tuck whatsoever. (Just ignore his lead-knee drop. Petrov allows this as an alternate "style".)

My recommendation would be for him to use the same soft pole, but try to swing earlier and faster, WITHOUT tucking. Then progress up to heavier poles with the same grip and run, until the full swing to extention (without the tuck) becomes second nature.

If he does that, I think he will be surprised at (a) how much heavier of a pole he can get on; and (b) how much more pushoff he gets up top.

And back to the original question, as he eliminates the tuck, his style will gravitate further and further towards "pure Petrov".

tennpolevault wrote:... Many of his drop attributes are very Petrov inspired.

Can you expand on this?

Kirk

Bottom arm is definitely blocking...
So, though his swing is somewhat "Petrov", would I not call him a Petrov disciple.

Now, it's not in the review forum.... Tags on youtube is Ayers. Does that give any clues?

Edit: Corrected a spelling error (Thx Kirk).

Kirk,
thanks for the insight. I actually agree with you on most of the points if not all. Mainly his swing was quite delayed in the past, generally from some passive phases and possibly from some runway confidence issues. That is improving. I am hopeful that as his take-off speed and confidence go up, his committment to swing hard and fast on bigger poles will improve equally. I liked your comments about swinging faster and minimizing the tuck. He was quite a gymnast before so this should equate well to his high bar release skill experiences. We are working to have less left arm/elbow block in front and more chest stretch accompanied by a faster and more fully extended swing through the right hand. Thanks guys. You gotta love this stuff.

golfdane wrote: Bottom arm is definitely blocking...
So, though his swing is somewhat "Petrov", would I not call him a Petrov disciple.

Yes, now that you point that out, Golfdane, you're right. Eliminate the left arm blocking, and he's back to Petrov. Not until.

tennpolevault wrote: We are working to have less left arm/elbow block in front and more chest stretch ...

I was wondering why he couldn't get inverted sooner and better without tucking, but now that Golfdane pointed out that he's blocking, it becomes obvious. I didn't catch that on first pass.

His thought process may be that he THINKS he needs to block to bend the pole, but it's actually working AGAINST him. By blocking, he's delaying his swing to the point where he has no choice but to tuck. It's not as blatant as most tuck/shooters, because his swing (hinging at the hips) is quite good. But due to the blocking, this doesn't get his hips up enough (hinging at the shoulders), so he compensates by tucking. Ideally, he should snap out of the C by hinging at the hips, but morph that into hinging at the shoulders.

Since he's on a light pole and landing well into the pit, now is the time for him to expirement with "no blocking" (not just "less blocking"). As you know, this will let his chest penetrate better, which will roll the pole a lot better. But one important caution of letting the chest go thru (i.e. not resisting with the bottom arm) is to IMMEDIATELY pop out of the C. Don't hesitate at all! I've done it both ways, and I'm absolutely certain that you should not waste any time at all in the C position. It's just a checkpoint - it's not a position to freeze in. Just pop into it, then immediately pop back out of it.

Popping out of the C is like a highbar tap swing, only more accentuated (and with one leg). As a gymnast, he will know that feeling. The next checkpoint is getting inverted to the point where he can "shoot to a handstand" just like on the highbar. You don't get many technical points in highbar for that, but in PV, it's the key to an efficient extension/pushoff.

But he won't be able to shoot to a handstand until he gets inverted earlier. And he won't be able to do that until he swings faster. And he won't be able to do that unless he pops in/out of the C. And he won't be able to do that if he blocks.

Petrov is defined by this "continuous chain" of actions (ignoring the run/plant/takeoff for the moment). If his body is continually moving thru the motions I've described - without any passive phases - then he's following the Petrov model. Not until.

As his coach, you sound like you're on top of this situation, so I don't mean to tell you things that you're already aware of. Rather, I'm using your vaulter and his vid as an example for other young vaulters to observe, and follow what Golfdane and I are saying about it. I think your vaulter's technical flaws are very, very common - and fairly easily fixed. Especially since he has good gymnastic skills.

Kirk

I think you just need more of a monster pole. It looks like you are using a "baby" pole to vault with.

Livininthepast wrote:I think you just need more of a monster pole. It looks like you are using a "baby" pole to vault with.

Technique before pole flex ... ALWAYS!

See my post on this thread: http://polevaultpower.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=16961

Kirk