Kirk heres just a few:
There's a lot of confusion regarding the word "pull" on this Advanced Technique forum (not just in this thread). I think what Agapit meant when he used the word "pull" in his Manifesto is not the normal English usage of the word.
I think he meant a "lateral pull", where the direction of the pull is similar to a gymnast inverting straight-bodied from a hang on the rings. The use of the lats (latissimus dorsi muscles) is the only part of this gymnastic move I'm referring to - not the straight-body part.
This movement is still not exactly the "pull" that he's talking about, because in a lat pulldown, you bend both elbows substantially. But if you do the lat pulldown with both elbows straight, that's much closer to it.
Of course, both the rings and the weights excercises don't take into account the gripping of a pole where the top arm is straight and the bottom arm is bent. Maybe if you can imagine taking a 3-foot piece of broken pole, attaching it to the weight over your head (while you're prone on a bench), holding the pole with your normal grips, then doing a lat pulldown - whilst emphasizing a straight top arm and bent bottom arm - that would simulate it much closer. In fact, don't just imagine this - try it!
It's a combination of getting the body used to the movement, and at the same time putting the movement into your "muscle memory". Then, when you take off on a real jump and are about to swing, the movement will happen "automagically". You'll just do it without thinking, due to all your conditioning.
You've got it a bit backwards. The lat pull is at the start of the swing. It's done in conjunction with the long trail leg swing.
In my experience, I didn't really think about pulling (lat pulling). I thought about swinging, and the lat pull happens at the same time. Just like on a high bar. I led with my swing, and the pull followed. Or you could say that they happen simultaneously. But you definitely don't initiate the swing with the lat pull. You just accelerate it by pulling - which is what adds energy to the system.
IMHO, if you do it right, you really don't have to think about pulling with the bottom hand at all - it should just come naturally from all your high bar work.
You quote AVC coach;
AVC Coach wrote: In reference to the bottom arm pushing at take-off, I think the important thing to remember when teaching young vaulters is this.......DO NOT PULL!!! I teach my kids to get the bottom arm moving up, not out, at take-off
Kirk: AVC Coach, do you mean "DO NOT PUSH!!!?"
AVC Coach: No, I wrote what I meant. I think that I have a pretty sound understanding of what should happen at take-off and pulling is not an ingredient in that recipe in my opinion.
Sigh....
Kirk, You refuse to get it (AVC Coach is correct) or except it, and I believe it may have to do with the fact you were not taught it or demonstrated it in your own outdated technique.
What Petrov, Butler, Werner, Clymer, and I have been trying to say and What Bubka, Walker and Lavillenie demonstrate in their vaults is that they are NOT performing a Lat Pull (As you call it) in their downswing after and coming out of elastic Penetration. In fact they are performing just the opposite! They are experiencing a" Lat Stretching" as they Re-Extend the Plant to extend the long lever of the body and to lower their COG. Just as the Gymnast Pushes away from the High bar during the downswing in the Giant. It is the upward push upward that add energy to the downswing and is critical for the downswing Tap!
The other points that you are failing to recognize and in fact disagree with that are all critical to break the world record are:
1) The benefit of generating vertical energy coming out of the chair position from the top of the swing though the forceful straightening out of the spine and the extension of the legs and hips upward. I call that the Tap at the top of the swing.
2) The benefit of extending that swing all the way so the the hip makes contact close to the top arm elbow in a beyond vertical position.
3) The benefit of a very strong downward Push of the bottom hand toward the pit for additional vertical energy.
4) The benefit of a very strong top hand push as you leave the pole.
You have made it clear you do not believe in these additional opportunies to add vertical energy and None of these are included in your Signature as well?
