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Rebutal to DJ Comments & the readers Comments
Posted: Wed Mar 22, 2006 1:41 pm
by Bruce Caldwell
Lets look at the facts not the gossip or hearsay!
I over the years have known Dave Johnson and how intelligent he is and the passion he has for the sport. The day he wrote this he must of gotten up on the wrong side of the bed.
Proof and facts are missing from his rash and defaming statements. After several letters to him about this I find it necessary to discuss the facts openly so we can dismiss the myths that he has created. Of all things good about Forums, one thing that is bad is misinformation. And there is sure allot of it on this site!
My objective is to educate the readers and not defame Dave, as I do know of the many products and the contributions he has given to the sport to no monetary gain.
But some of these myths are tough to see reprinted over and over on this site as false statements with no basis of truth. No rebutal or defence And they are beginning to teach people wrong data about poles. While Dave is very knowledgeable about Vaulting he lacks certain info about fiberglass vaulting poles that he can only guess or speculate. His therories are way out in left field
So lets look at each comment individually and seek the true answers.!
rebutal by Bruce Caldwell Maker of the ESSX pole and Catapoles.
This post will be as informative as one can be!
dj wrote:Poles..
I think it is time we take a long hard look at poles and how they are affecting pole vaulting.
Last week at a meet in Florida I watched two teams of men and women ( 4 groups of vaulters) coached by three coaches that coach very much alike and off course coach their own team members alike and very close to the petrov model and physics’
High School kids jumping Petrov model with physics? That would be wonderful were they jumping very high? 14'6" for girls and 17' for boys?
There needs to be more information here on this comment!
[quote="dj"]What happened was something I have watched for 30 years, tested with mike tully in 1983-1988 and was actually able to test again 3 years ago.
The only poles that the coaches could get the coaching results they were asking for technically, was from those athletes using the
spirit pole. Those jumpers had fewer “issuesâ€Â
Posted: Wed Mar 22, 2006 2:00 pm
by bjvando
"From the men’s division Big 10 winner use ESSX to jump 5:50 he was a 16’7â€Â
Posted: Wed Mar 22, 2006 2:24 pm
by saraf
i just read that ... wow.. i had some comments but that was long and informative
Posted: Wed Mar 22, 2006 2:42 pm
by vaulter870
way to go bruce. i have to say that i agree with bruce. essx is the most passionate about fitting you with the right pole. i called all of the other pole companies when looking for the poles that i needed and all the other companies that i called treated me like i was an idiot and that i was going to buy from them anyways so they didnt really care. When i called bruce i was pleasently suprised with how much he wanted to know about how i was vaulting and what poles i was useing. he really wanted me to get on the right pole. i ordered my first 2 poles from him in augest. i recieved the first pole and got to try it out so that the next pole that i got was one that would also fit me well. weither it needed to be smaller or bigger. bruce took the time to help me out and make sure that i was on the right pole. my friend has also switched to essx because of the great fit of the poles and the fact that he has had enough of carbon fx's. he recieved 2 poles from them and after 2 meets he broke one of them and was injured by it. he is fed up with poles that are not built the same and not built consistenly. i can say from experience that i have jumped on over a dozen different carbon fx's and they are all different and they all react different reguardless of weight and length. i have jumped on a 15' 170 carbon that was deffinetly alot stiffer and a 15' 165 pacer carbon that was deffinetly to soft. i agree that i am sick of pole compaines not fitting poles to their clientel. it bothered me to be treated like that. and that is why i called essx and why i will continue to go back.
Posted: Wed Mar 22, 2006 3:15 pm
by cdmilton
I dunno about everone else here but I have had good experiences with Gill. We have got perfect lines from them with poles all 1.0 or 0.5 apart depending on what we requested.
lets be nice ok
Posted: Wed Mar 22, 2006 3:21 pm
by Bruce Caldwell
No Need to cut down other pole manufactuers not the intent of the my post. Beside there are over 30,000 poles sold each year in the USA and I can only handle sales of 6,000 so I need the other companies to pick up the slack!
Lets discuss vaulting and how it relates to matching the grip, the weight, the way people, jump.
Lets talk various technique, styles, etc.
Lets all be positive and provide informative info thanks for the great comments on ESSX NOvi MICH check out Mich state vault team great coaching. Got a big 10 winner there on ESSX at 5.50m 18'+
Bruce
Posted: Wed Mar 22, 2006 3:52 pm
by vaulter870
not my intent to bash other comainies but it is what happened to me i am just sharing my experience. it really happened and i think that people nee to realize that they cant treat customers like that and that they need to help people get the poles they need not the poles they want.
Posted: Thu Mar 23, 2006 12:06 pm
by gtc
Nice post Bruce; got to agree with you. I remember reading the original post on this topic and thought it was probably the most ignorant thing I had read on this board.
Posted: Thu Mar 23, 2006 2:36 pm
by keulpv
Just to add a little,
I have jumped on every kind of pole on the market today (even nordic) and honestly didnt find anything but subtle differences. My vault is all about power and slowly but surely becoming more technical. I have been a big stick vaulter for my whole life. In fact, I would have told you how you were all silly for worrying so much about the pole and not the vaulter. HOWEVER, Bruce finally got me up to Fort Worth and sold me on ESSX the poles technically. I took them home that day and was quite impressed. I expected to feel the same pole as all the others, but with with a snazzy flame on it. What happened is that my jumps on the identically flexed poles to my old ones (510 13.2, 12.8) were just plain easier. I was able to stand the pole up, catch it, and have time to get in the right positions. His poles are different than the rest, and I respect how much he believes in them and his knowledge about pole physics. I dont have anything against other poles or their proprietors, in fact I am friends with all of them, and I have jumped over 18 feet on Spirt, Pacer, and even Altius. In my struggle to overcome the other 49 people in on the world list though, I need whatever help I can get, and I feel like ESSX will give me an advantage.
AK
poles
Posted: Sun Mar 26, 2006 5:44 am
by scsuvaulter
I was just wondering how essx compares weight wise to the other brands as what may have been outlined in the following article:
http://www.pvei.com/documents/Vaulting%20Pole.htm
Thanks SCSUVAULTER
Weight of a pole and the carry weight of a pole
Posted: Sun Mar 26, 2006 9:50 am
by Bruce Caldwell
We only get our feed back from the vaulters and we do not have the luxury to have a multiple quantity of the other brand poles to test. (We are not on our competitor’s promo list to be provided poles free to get us to switch! GRIN) We have been told that we are lighter in some cases.
It was not until just last week that we even had an ultra light in our factory to look at.
Our findings are; we would never make a pole that way!
However, the pole was very lightweight, that aspect was accomplished, but without regard to resilience and performance of the pole that we feel is most important.
Carry weight is a funny topic too, In some cases, we have developed the best carry weight ever and seen the vaulter add a heavy pole tip or gobs of tape to the bottom of the pole to protect it against the box.
Also after trying to accomplish the best carry weight by removing butt stiffness and moving the center of the sail up the pole the pole would bend far too low hindering performance.
In a one on one test with the few poles compared, we have realized we are very close and found a 1 oz heavier deference could be over-come by lifting the pole higher during the run to recover any carry-weight increase.
All these very fine adjustments that can be made resulted in less performance of the pole and we have found that performance out-weighs any of those changes.
While the testing method outlined in the article is a finite way to capture your data, a simple balancing of the pole on a finger and a measurement of the distance from the tip to the center of gravity will disclose the best data useful to the vaulter.
THEREFORE, in comparison I have seen some S glass poles that are lighter than some carbon poles we have looked at even in our own design and brand. We can make 14’ carbon but prefer to provide an S glass design when possible at weights less than 160 lbs . That is why you see the top girls using carbon only when they get to their stiffest poles.
PS that is a good article and all should read it. INformative and not too misleading
http://www.pvei.com/documents/Vaulting%20Pole.htm
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Posted: Fri Mar 31, 2006 10:52 pm
by dj
Bruce
If I owe anyone an apology I will make it whole heartedly, but to apologies for what I have observed for 30 years , from a pretty good platform, I think would be unnecessary and disingenuous.
The jumpers I “observed’ indoors at florida were not “lowlyâ€Â