What comes first - athleticism or technical ability?

[powerplant42]

I hope you'll have many more great people to thank after a long, successful career VTV! Your story is great, but it's far from over! Keep up the good (hard) work, and keep sticking with good coaches, who are good people.

I see we have two fairly successful vaulters that played basketball pretty seriously... KB and VTV. I used to pretend that I was a good player, and tried out last year and the year before (and swore I would try out this year!), but now all I do is vault. I tried out for soccer this year (I tried out Freshman year, and I played Sophomore year), but I was too busy doing sand jagodins over the Summer to have been working on my dribbling, so...

I'd like to continue Fred's story (I do have a purpose with this, it'll be clear in a week or two!):

Fred is looking at a long Summer. He has so much stuff to do! He's got to hang out with some of his new high school friends, try to hook up with that one really cute chick on the field hockey team, take that cruise with his family, and catch up on all that slacking that he missed while he was in school. Needless to say, Fred is way too busy to be very concerned with pole vaulting... He runs once in a while, and yeah, he does some push ups here and there, plenty of bicep curls (for that cute chick), and some squats when he's not too tired from running. He doesn't have any kind of structure to these workouts, he just does whatever he feels like on any given day. He is having a very comfortable, relaxing, stress-free Summer. He sleeps in every day, and typically talks with his friends on AIM for a good portion of the day, while eating those Baked Lays, Cheetos, and drinking that Mountain Dew. One day, about a month before school starts, he gets a call from his pole vault coach, Coach Smith. Fred is pleasantly suprised! He immediately remembers how much he loves vaulting, how awesome it feels to clear a PR with his friends cheering him on, and how hard he worked last Spring... and how little he improved. Fred's got the eye of the tiger! He is eager to hear what Coach Smith has got to say. "Fred, I've got an idea. Now, I know you might not like it, but I've figured out how we can take you to the next level." "YEAH!? How's that Coach!? Tell me what I can do, and I'll do it!" "Well, I think it's a good idea if you ran cross country this Fall, it'll get you ready for this Spring. What else are you gonna do!?" (Keep in mind, Fred does NOT have an indoor season.) "Uh... Coach... You know I can't run distance worth crap, why should I torture myself running cross country when I can just lift and run on my own?" "Fred, it'll get the competetive attitude into your head, and you'll be really fast from all that running! I mean, how wouldn't that make sense?" "Haha, you're right Coach. Alright, I'll give it a shot, and I'm really hyped up already for this outdoor season! I can't wait to vault again!" "Ok, let me know how you're doing, Fred!" "K, bye Coach!" Fred grabs a Gatorade right away, and tells his mom that he's going out running... And thus, Fred enters a new chapter of his vaulting career.

[KirkB]

Now THERE'S a success story of how to go about it the RIGHT way!

Thanks for sharing this with all of us, Brian!

... My desire and drive to be a high level vaulter combined with (to be honest) a bit of a hot temper at times ...

As long as you use that temper constructively - to stoke the fire (ego, burning desire to win) within - you're on the right path!

Kirk

[SlickVT]

This is a good topic. One of the few I actually took the time to read the whole way through. It is an epidemic that American (and some Euros) don't want to take the time to learn the technical model and progress for later.

However, lets be honest and put ourselves in their shoes. Only a small percentage of American high school vaulters ever continue past high school, and a large percentage of them only do it for fun and to stay in shape. Heck, I had no idea what a technical model was until I started taking vaulting "seriously" my sophomore year in HS (I started at 7th grade just for fun).

Of the kids who lack poles and sand pits and high bars... what AD is going to listen to a bunch of mediocre vaulters that have not jumped very high to spend money and put a high bar or any other gymnastic equipment in place for them? How many of these kids actually have coaches??? It is not surprise that the few that make it out of HS and onto the next level... most of them will have spent much of their time just vaulting and lifting and possibly other sports, because that is what is available to them. Even if they went out of their way and learned to understand a model, what resources do they have to implement it?

You can ask anyone that watched me vault in HS... heck, ask VTV. It was sad. I had NO speed, NO explosiveness, and whoever it was that decided how much of the "naturally gifted" pie I was going to get forgot about me. Therefore, I relied on the technical aspects of the vault to get me through. I jumped an average 15'6" in HS with about 5.4 m/s runway speed. Fast forward to college and past here at VT, and the long term plan that VTCoach and VTV and I have put in place is really starting to make a HUGE difference in my physical ability and speed. I am actually starting to surprise myself with how the plan is coming together. I agree with Alan (I hope he didn't just fall out of his chair)... technical aspects are far more important, and at least in my case, it gave me the fighting chance to continue on and develop myself to a higher physical level.

[altius]

" I agree with Alan (I hope he didn't just fall out of his chair)."

I did -but fortunately landed on one of my dogs who cushioned the fall!

[KYLE ELLIS]

After I read more about the actual question, I would answe as a coach i would want to take an already good athlete, and install technique first before putting emphasis on training. But if i inherited a not so good athlete, i would try to progress his athleticsm while working on very basic principles of technique.

And Alan the reason I say the quotes you gave were biased is because in those countries they picked out "good athletes" so of course they wouldn't have to worry about them not having the strength or motor skills to perform the early stages of good technique. Bubka was incredible athlete so of course for him learning technique was indeed the most important...

And Alan a follow up to your statement about not wasting time as far as learning technique goes, what about people like me who focused on technique and did it the wrong way for 9 years?? I think there is something to be said about being patient and making sure that athlete is doing it correctly; but the tricky part is you have to have a mentor that knows what the right way is.... there are still way more coaches who will teach bad habits than there are good coaches. (In my opinion)

[powerplant42]

Does anybody know if Ockert Britt's coach taught him to use an under take-off, or if he was just too focussed on strength?

[altius]

" there are still way more coaches who will teach bad habits than there are good coaches. (In my opinion)".

Now we have reached the nub of the problem. I suspect that many coaches send kids to cross country or to the weight room because they do not know what else to do with them. That is why , increasingly, the emphasis in my clinics is is on helping each youngster understand the technical model and learn the drills they need to develop that model. Next years clinics will be called, "From beginner to Bubka clinics", to make that point. Would be nice if more coaches came along - especially when agapit is also involved.

Still, re read the Bartonietz quote -that was directed at learning any event in track and field. Technique - even if it is only a sound working model - is the critical factor early on.

[rainbowgirl28]

I suspect that many coaches send kids to cross country or to the weight room because they do not know what else to do with them.

Alan, in many states, high school coaches are strictly prohibited from working with their athletes outside of the track season. In my state (WA), we can do general conditioning, but nothing vault specific (pole runs, sand vaulting, etc). We are lucky in the Seattle area that Pat Licari does pole vaulting clinics from Nov-Feb, many do not have such opportunities.

Just keep that in mind when you are judging us.

[joebro391]

After I read more about the actual question, I would answe as a coach i would want to take an already good athlete, and install technique first before putting emphasis on training. But if i inherited a not so good athlete, i would try to progress his athleticsm while working on very basic principles of technique.

I think this was stated, perfectly, here

[sooch90]

After I read more about the actual question, I would answe as a coach i would want to take an already good athlete, and install technique first before putting emphasis on training. But if i inherited a not so good athlete, i would try to progress his athleticsm while working on very basic principles of technique.

I think this was stated, perfectly, here

what's your point?

[powerplant42]

His point is that he thinks KE is correct. I largely agree as well. It WAS stated almost perfectly.

[sooch90]

oh okay, the way he wrote it was kind of ambiguous. It looked like he was telling Kyle Ellis that what he said was already stated or something