bending the bottom arm

[BethelPV]

"i wish i could keep my bottom arm straight when i take off."


No you don't. That will only lead to a weaker swing and a worse inversion. The more you allow your lead arm to relax and let your chest drive through your hands, the more you load your core, thus causing a lot stronger swing reflex and a better inversion!

Zachmo

[LPVG]

Sweet PV:
You had received a lot of good advice, especially from BethelPV and AKell. A straight bottom arm bleeds power from your jump. Go to
http://www.stabhochsprung.com/
and look at Fefanova's 4.70 jump in SloMo. Pause the video at her takeoff and advance frame by frame. She is using the Petrov Technical Model and is driving her chest up through her shoulders. There is no straight bottom arm at takeoff.
This is what you should strive for.
LPVG

[stavhoppare]

The left arm straightens because the pole bends. The pole does not bend because of a straight left arm!!!!!

If your top hand is at 15' and your bottom hand at 13', where is it most efficient to apply force???? From the top hand, of course. The bottom arm/hand is along to guide the pole, act as a fulcrum during the plant and for stabilizing during the penetration. It should be "passively rigid" during the take off and penetration phase, before bending during the inversion, extension and turn.

[vault3rb0y]

Sweet PV:
You had received a lot of good advice, especially from BethelPV and AKell. A straight bottom arm bleeds power from your jump. Go to
http://www.stabhochsprung.com/
and look at Fefanova's 4.70 jump in SloMo. Pause the video at her takeoff and advance frame by frame. She is using the Petrov Technical Model and is driving her chest up through her shoulders. There is no straight bottom arm at takeoff.
This is what you should strive for.
LPVG

If you notice her jumps, obviously she is a posterchild, formwise. And watching her 4.70 in slomo i caught something that ive been meaning to ask about. Let me try to explain it, she takes off very nicely, at the initial contact of the pole with the box, she starts letting her hands go over her head, but then and she begins to swing, you notice the pole jerk forcewards ever-so-slightly, as her hands start to move from over her head,a little forward. At the same time her swing has gone under her body and she is connecting her feet between her 2 grips. My coach has told me that using your shoulders near the end of the vault to push a little forward will help you get through the pit, and im curious if this is correct and that is what fefanova is doing, or if i should not use my shoulders to put a little more pressure on the pole. You should deffinitly have to take a look at the jump to know what im talking about. I really dont know, haha maybe im going insane?

[master]

Let me try to explain it, she takes off very nicely, at the initial contact of the pole with the box, she starts letting her hands go over her head, but then and she begins to swing, you notice the pole jerk forcewards ever-so-slightly, as her hands start to move from over her head,a little forward.

What I have been taught regarding the Petrov Technical Model is at the plant, when you are stretched tall and with a straight upper arm, you want to be very tight throughout your body. Think of trying to be so rigid that all your momentum can be successfully applied to the pole through your top hand. Even though she strives for that, it is virtually impossible to achieve, so the hand is "driven" back behind the head. However, because she has tightened her body so much, it is like a spring that takes the impact, flexing a little but returning to the desired position. From there the rest of the swing and jump procedes.

So I would say the motion you see is real, but not because she drives her hands/arms forward. Instead, it is in reaction to force applied by the pole to her arms while she has tried to prevent the pole from driving her hands back.

- master

[fx]

If your top hand is at 15' and your bottom hand at 13', where is it most efficient to apply force???? From the top hand, of course.

actually, I think I read this on pvei, wouldn't it be more effective to apply the force through the bottom arm because the grip is lower here, so the effective length of the pole is shorter? I know a bunch of people are probably going to kill me about this but I am NOT talking about a stiff, straight out bottom arm. I believe the article I read said that it is beneficial to tighten the bottom hand grip or something? Don't quite remember, but it made sense to me when I read it.

[vault3rb0y]

What I have been taught regarding the Petrov Technical Model is at the plant, when you are stretched tall and with a straight upper arm, you want to be very tight throughout your body. Think of trying to be so rigid that all your momentum can be successfully applied to the pole through your top hand. Even though she strives for that, it is virtually impossible to achieve, so the hand is "driven" back behind the head. However, because she has tightened her body so much, it is like a spring that takes the impact, flexing a little but returning to the desired position. From there the rest of the swing and jump procedes.

So I would say the motion you see is real, but not because she drives her hands/arms forward. Instead, it is in reaction to force applied by the pole to her arms while she has tried to prevent the pole from driving her hands back.

- master

oh i see, so she tries to stay totally vertical, but the pole drives her hand back, so she tries to correct it. In that case, the ideal jump would actually be holding the split C in a perfect position until the swing.

[master]

oh i see, so she tries to stay totally vertical, but the pole drives her hand back, so she tries to correct it.

I'm trying to say she isn't consciously trying to correct the deflection, she is trying to not allow the deflection to occur and that resistance is what causes the return of the arms to the original, optimum position. Perhaps this analogy will help. I'm facing you and going to throw a medicine ball to you to catch. It is going to be above your head and I want you to catch it but not let your hands go back farther than where they are before the ball gets to your hands. You would probably brace yourself and tighten your arm, chest and abdominal muscles to resist when the ball hits your hands. I don't think you would be able to keep your hands from going back, but if you maintained that taught body, your hands would likely return to the starting position without you thinking about and trying to return them there.

In that case, the ideal jump would actually be holding the split C in a perfect position until the swing.

I'm sorry, but I'm not familiar with the term "split C". Can you explain please?

- master

[LPVG]

"My coach has told me that using your shoulders near the end of the vault to push a little forward will help you get through the pit, and im curious if this is correct and that is what fefanova is doing, or if i should not use my shoulders to put a little more pressure on the pole. You should deffinitly have to take a look at the jump to know what im talking about. I really dont know, haha maybe im going insane?"

No you are not going insane. As she begins to invert, her arms return to vertical. She is effectively using her shoulders to "row" her legs and torso up to her hand. Notice that her hands never move past vertical (except when her hands make contact with her body - marking) She is using the kick whip to start the invert and then uses tremendous shoulder strength, along with abdominal strength, to get tight to the pole.

The Master is using a perfect anlogy with the medicine ball. I think there are some rehabilitation/strength videos out there showing an athlete lying on his back and throwing a medicine ball against the wall. I'll find them and post the link
Clay

[RES]

I got it here is a new one, much like the napoleon "yes"
so lets pretend you have a cheese shop sandwitch, and some how it is connected to your pole, dont ask me how but it is, and to take a bite of this wonderfull cheese shope sandwitch you must break your bottom arm, if you dont a crazy old man will snatch the sandwitch off your pole make fun of you and, eat it him self.SO GOSH DARNT IT MYRK BREAK YOUR BOTTOM ARM.

[SweetPVJumps]

i apoligize for the psychotic nature of my acquaintance above my post

[rainbowgirl28]

I got it here is a new one, much like the napoleon "yes"
so lets pretend you have a cheese shop sandwitch, and some how it is connected to your pole, dont ask me how but it is, and to take a bite of this wonderfull cheese shope sandwitch you must break your bottom arm, if you dont a crazy old man will snatch the sandwitch off your pole make fun of you and, eat it him self.SO GOSH DARNT IT MYRK BREAK YOUR BOTTOM ARM.

LOL funniest post of the week!