Negative Referrals

[Tim McMichael]

This is an ethics question, and a dilemma. What should you do about negative referrals? I don't want to get into anything personal, mostly because I respect the people involved, and hope this thing can be handled privately. I just want advice. If other people are telling athletes and parents that you are a terrible coach, what, if anything, should you do?

[rainbowgirl28]

This is an ethics question, and a dilemma. What should you do about negative referrals? I don't want to get into anything personal, mostly because I respect the people involved, and hope this thing can be handled privately. I just want advice. If other people are telling athletes and parents that you are a terrible coach, what, if anything, should you do?

Know that you coached one of the greatest high school vaulters of all time and don't worry about the haters

People have short memories. Just keep doing a good job with the kids you have and word will spread. If the person is spreading things about you that are untrue, you could try asking them nicely to stop. If it's slanderous/libelous (like if they accused you of something awful) you may need to get a lawyer involved, but I would just focus on building a positive base of kids with what you have. If an athlete doesn't like your coaching style, they're better off training somewhere else anyway, and hopefully other parents will be open-minded enough to form their own opinions about you.

[altius]

If this is affecting you personally TIm - send me the names and contact details of these folk and I will happily give them some free advice.

[Tim McMichael]

I just don’t understand it. I know this is a competitive business, but I have always thought it was off limits to criticize a coach publicly, especially to their own students. If an athlete wants to switch coaches for their own reasons, that is just fine by me. It would hurt, but there should be no hard feelings toward the other coach personally. I never felt badly towards someone who beat me as an athlete, and I don’t feel badly toward someone who can outcoach me, but trying to steal or steer athletes away by poisoning the well is not okay with me. If this were just a one-time occurrence, it would be a lot easier to deal with, but now I am hearing about this kind of thing from multiple sources. I shouldn’t take this personally, but it is hard not to, and I am sure it has cost me at least one job and more than one athlete.

I know in the music business, a negative referral is considered the most professionally unethical thing one instructor can do to another. You will get in big trouble with your peers in a hurry if you do things like that. I don’t want to retaliate against anyone; I just want it to stop. My main reason for starting this thread is in the hope that a discussion of this issue will expose it to the disapprobation of the larger coaching community. This should be one of the unwritten rules that bind a profession together in mutual respect and collegiality.

Another reason this bothers me so much is that I thought so much better of these people. Coaches I looked forward to seeing at meets are now people I want to either confront or avoid. I don’t need that kind of stress in my life, especially when I need to focus on my athletes.

[Tim McMichael]

If this is affecting you personally TIm - send me the names and contact details of these folk and I will happily give them some free advice.

Thanks, Alan. Your support means a lot to me.

[Tim McMichael]

This is an ethics question, and a dilemma. What should you do about negative referrals? I don't want to get into anything personal, mostly because I respect the people involved, and hope this thing can be handled privately. I just want advice. If other people are telling athletes and parents that you are a terrible coach, what, if anything, should you do?

Know that you coached one of the greatest high school vaulters of all time and don't worry about the haters

People have short memories. Just keep doing a good job with the kids you have and word will spread. If the person is spreading things about you that are untrue, you could try asking them nicely to stop. If it's slanderous/libelous (like if they accused you of something awful) you may need to get a lawyer involved, but I would just focus on building a positive base of kids with what you have. If an athlete doesn't like your coaching style, they're better off training somewhere else anyway, and hopefully other parents will be open-minded enough to form their own opinions about you.

Might be the best solution - just keep quiet and keep coaching.

[dj]

Honestly I know the feeling… but I know the respect you have from a thousand other vault people, and to be honest I know the respect that Earl Bell and Mike Tully would give you (even though Mike probably wouldn’t admit it) and to me their vote would out weight anyone everyone, even the thousands on PVP. (no offense guys)

Keep doing what you are doing… get some t-shirts printed that has this written on the back.

“If you are reading this you are in second.”

dj

[souleman]

Tim
In the sales game the one thing you never do is bad mouth the competition. The person that does that might think they are
winning the battle but it's been proven time and time again that that approach has the opposite effect. You can't really do anything to counter act the negative things coming from the "customers" (athletes). On the other hand, if a competing coach is doing it in his "sales pitch" you are with in all bounds to confront him about it. You might find out that he is doing the opposite and that through the grapevine what's getting back to you is actually something quite different than what is real. You have all the right in the world to protect and promote your product. The best way is to continue is to present a list of features followed in each case by the benefit to the "prospect" of each of those features. One more thing. As long as I'm using this "sales" analogy I'll add one more sales example. You'll visit with 10 people to actually sit down and give your presentation to 3 to 5. Of those 3 to 5 you "close" 50% of those. Those are the numbers. In the real world those would be huge. I'll bet you actually do better than that. Hope this helps
Later............Mike

[Tim McMichael]

Thanks for the support. This is just the kind of thing you have to deal with in this business, I guess. I shouldn't have such thin skin. Once again, thanks. It really means a lot to me that there is a such a great group of people who support and appreciate what I do. And I want you all to know that the feeling is mutual. I feel privileged to be a part of this community.

[htheodore]

Just know this...
The better your athlete, the more you come under fire. Everyone always has their opinion of what that great vaulter should do or change that would get them to the next level. The main thing is that the people in the know, the ones that matter, understand who is responsible for getting that kid where they are, regardless of who is coaching them now. Their loss?

[CowtownPV]

Coach bashing is something that always ticks me off but it is a way of our world these days. Everybody loves to talk about everybody else. TV and radio shows are making a living out of bad mouthing coaching, and the sad part is that alot of coaches think the best way to make themselves look good is to put others down. We can all agree to disagree but anyone who talks bad about a coach to one of the coach's athletes has no right to be called a coach. The best thing you can do is ignore it, just like not listening to the idiots in the stands, and keep doing the best job you can and things will work out. Your results will speak for you and your coaching.

[reconjohnnie]

Tim,
Just my. 02

Instructors in the firearms field people do this all this time. Bad mouthing, will not get them anywhere. Most the time, people doing the bad mouthing are the ones trying to prove their ability because they have not proven themselves in an arena where they have excelled.

At least it has not gotten anyone killed pole vaulting yet. I have seen it on the other side where it has ended badly.

As I was told a long time a go, be a duck. Water runs off a duck.

Kick a hole in the sky,

John