rules for different states?

[patybobady]

I know there are different rules for different states, however Illinois seems really odd and confusing. At a meet I ran today, there was a big discussion over several rules.

1. Bungee? It does not say anywhere in the rule book that you can not use it in warmups, so it is legal to use...I would say it depends on the sioze of the meet...

2. Breaking the vertical plane...I understand that you can have your pole cross the plane, touch nothing and it is not a miss. You can also touch the box, or any of the mats before that vertical plane with one foot and it is not a miss (which seems odd). If both feet touch or you leave the ground or if you touch the mats or anything past the vertical plane it is an attempt...

3. Tap's...I was certified on the pvscb website over x-mas and they sent me a rule book: but 2004's rule book. I read it a go by it, but it is 2004, and this is 2005. Does anyone have a 2005 book where it repeats what 2004's says about no tap's in warmup's or the meet? I used 2004's to show someone and was told 2004's is old and not the current one so it is not a rule. This gave me a headache.

Are there any other specific rules that are real touchy to be aware of? I'm just looking for specific rules to use as a reference. This may be dumb, but are 2005, h.s. books available, and what about different states, like Illinois, having different rules?

[ashcraftpv]

1. Bungee? It does not say anywhere in the rule book that you can not use it in warmups, so it is legal to use...I would say it depends on the sioze of the meet...

there is no rule that says you can't put up a bar or bungie during warmups. You are not allowed to have a bar or bungie up for run-throughs after the meet has started. I've been to many meets where a bar/bungie was used in warmups.

2. Breaking the vertical plane...I understand that you can have your pole cross the plane, touch nothing and it is not a miss. You can also touch the box, or any of the mats before that vertical plane with one foot and it is not a miss (which seems odd). If both feet touch or you leave the ground or if you touch the mats or anything past the vertical plane it is an attempt...

from the rulebook:

ART. 29... It is a foul if the competitor:
...
b. Leaves the ground in an attempt and fails to clear the crossbar.
...
d. Allows any part of his/her body or the pole to touch the ground or the landing pad beyond the vertical plane of the top of the stop board, without clearing the bar.

Jan clarified b) at a coaches clinic. The rule says "leave the ground in an attempt", so the vaulter can run down, stop, stick their pole in the box, jump up a little in order to stop, and land on the front buns with both feet. As long as the vaulter wasn't making an attempt at the bar, its not a miss. as long as they don't touch anything past the plane of the back of the box with their pole or body, its not a miss, so your example of the pole tip breaking the plane is correct.

3. Tap's...I was certified on the pvscb website over x-mas and they sent me a rule book: but 2004's rule book. I read it a go by it, but it is 2004, and this is 2005. Does anyone have a 2005 book where it repeats what 2004's says about no tap's in warmup's or the meet? I used 2004's to show someone and was told 2004's is old and not the current one so it is not a rule. This gave me a headache.

Are there any other specific rules that are real touchy to be aware of? I'm just looking for specific rules to use as a reference. This may be dumb, but are 2005, h.s. books available, and what about different states, like Illinois, having different rules?

ART. 10… Competitors in the jumping events shall not use any weights or artificial aids. They shall not wear a shoe or shoes that give the competitor an unfair advantage. In addition, illegal aids shall include pushing the vaulter on his/her back at take-off in the pole vault , in the warm-ups and in the competition. (Note: This is new for 2004)

so, no taps...period

another rule to be aware of is the minimum standard placement is now 15-1/2 inches (as of last year) and not 12. I had a lot of people try to put them on 12 last year and complained when i told them about the rule change.

[patybobady]

ART. 10… Competitors in the jumping events shall not use any weights or artificial aids. They shall not wear a shoe or shoes that give the competitor an unfair advantage. In addition, illegal aids shall include pushing the vaulter on his/her back at take-off in the pole vault , in the warm-ups and in the competition. (Note: This is new for 2004)

Thanks for the clarification for 'attempts' and bungees. The point someone was making was it does not say it in this year's book...I have looked, and maybe I am just looking in the wrong place, but I know it is now the 'rule' and everything, but just trying to have 100% certainty before arguing it...As if common sense isn't enough.

[lonestar]

2. Breaking the vertical plane...I understand that you can have your pole cross the plane, touch nothing and it is not a miss. You can also touch the box, or any of the mats before that vertical plane with one foot and it is not a miss (which seems odd). If both feet touch or you leave the ground or if you touch the mats or anything past the vertical plane it is an attempt...

from the rulebook:

ART. 29... It is a foul if the competitor:
...
b. Leaves the ground in an attempt and fails to clear the crossbar.
...
Jan clarified b) at a coaches clinic. The rule says "leave the ground in an attempt", so the vaulter can run down, stop, stick their pole in the box, jump up a little in order to stop, and land on the front buns with both feet. As long as the vaulter wasn't making an attempt at the bar, its not a miss. as long as they don't touch anything past the plane of the back of the box with their pole or body, its not a miss, so your example of the pole tip breaking the plane is correct.

Thanks for clarifying that Ash (and Jan!) I've never been clear on that one myself, and a lot of officials will call it a miss if a kid puts on the brakes, holds onto the pole, and pops about a foot off the ground with both feet and lands back on them without anything touching beyond the plane. I've always thought that that is NOT an attempt since they were trying to stop and restart their jump.

[Aviendha]

I wish officials would actually READ the rule books. I don't think I've ever seen this happen, but I think that at ANY meet I've ever been to, if someone jumped off the ground onto the front buns, it would be counted a miss. These people that write the rules try to make them specific and short (nearly impossible to accomplish), and in doing so, make them even more vague and confusing.

[patybobady]

I agree. I spoke with a coach at the meet Saturday about this. Someone should make a video with all (not possible) secernios and the ruling...Seeing what something says and seeing it in action are two different things. The wording in the rule book is hard to sift through I think...Just my two cents.

[master]

It seems there should be a person that represents the HS rules organization that you could ask a question of. The question and the response could be written and placed on the NFHSA web pages for all to read and learn. It does no one any good to have rules that can be interpreted several different ways.

Is there anyone that reads this forum that is part of the NFHSA organization that would care to comment?

[master]

Well, perhaps I should have looked into this topic before my previous reply. I went to the NFHS web page and found a couple of interesting things to mention here. The following link provides rulings on challenges to rules. So somehow there is a way to ask the question and get a ruling.
http://www.nfhs.org/scriptcontent/va_Cu ... NewsImage=

Additionally, the follwing link provides a list of changes to rules between 2004 and 2005. So that should answer whether there has been a change regarding a coach giving taps during warm ups. It would seem that except for a rule change being listed here, your 2004 rule book should stand.
http://www.nfhs.org/scriptcontent/va_Cu ... NewsImage=

[ashcraftpv]

It seems there should be a person that represents the HS rules organization that you could ask a question of. The question and the response could be written and placed on the NFHSA web pages for all to read and learn. It does no one any good to have rules that can be interpreted several different ways.

Is there anyone that reads this forum that is part of the NFHSA organization that would care to comment?

Jan pops in here from time to time, and he's one of the guys who helps the NFHS write the rules, so I think he'd be the one to ask about interpretations.

[Vaultref]

I for one would like to hear if that interpertation was Jans or the NFHS track and field person, Ms Doyle.

It would make quite a difference if the interpretation did not originate from the NF office. State athletic office personnel pass this information down through their respective sport interpretors to the officials of that sport. They are supposed to come from the NF exclusively.

I can tell you this, the very topic of what is a failed jump on an aborted attempt is officated differently across the country. That shouldn't be the case, but it is. What I do may not be what Illinios officials do which might be different yet from those in California, etc, etc.

The use of bungees is not regulated by rules, so I do expect it use during a meet to vary from state to state and for that matter even within a state.