much love for shoulder flexion

[IAmTheWalrus]

I agree with Kyle. In the time that it takes for your body to register the impact of the pole hitting the back of the box and begin swinging you will have finished your takeoff (provided you have a strong upspringing free takeoff). Remember, it takes a finite amount of time for the CNS to process this as well. Also, the instant the pole tip hits the back of the box your body will naturally start swinging forward, and if you try to force the leg back you as your hips are moving forward you end up with a left leg "hitch" and risk mis-timing the swing somewhat.

All this is my opinion, but I think its more or less what Kyle was saying. Its kind of what I've pieced together from reading these boards, BTB2, and observation. Thoughts?

[KYLE ELLIS]

Also, the instant the pole tip hits the back of the box your body will naturally start swinging forward,

I agree with everything you said but this, my opinion is that everything starts swinging forward when all of the pressure goes into the top hand (meaning the top hand stops moving backwards). As long as the top hand is moving back so will the trail leg. That’s half of the reason blocking is bad, prevents the top arm from moving back and receiving all of the pressure. This is why being elastic, flexible, and moving into an open position is so crucial at takeoff.
Open position= chest pushing forward, shoulders drawn back, tight lower back.

[EIUvltr]

So why is this important to know? Becuz when you swing on a pole, you should swing like a highbar specialist ... with a long top arm ... and use your LEVERAGE against the pole (top arm only) to bend it ... not by resisting the arm from getting pulled back into the C ... but from allowing the "natural" ... long-armed ... action to happen. Yes ... you want to do this with a stiff, rigid body ... but your body can be stiff and rigid and STILL let the top arm/shoulder go thru to the C. This actually requires good FLEXIBILITY ... in addition to strength ... to do properly. This flexibility that I'm referring to is actually just about the exact opposite of the type of RIGIDITY that you're proposing.Kirk

Kirk... no offense... but your posts...are hard to read... I feel like...I'm gonna have a seizure...when I read them...

I don't know if you're actually agreeing with me or disagreeing with me based off of different things you've written. Also, I'm not even sure if you are understanding what I was trying to say. BUT, I'll try my best.

"your body can be stiff and rigid and STILL let the top arm/shoulder go thru to the C. This actually requires good FLEXIBILITY ... in addition to strength ... to do properly."

This either makes no sense whatsoever or makes some sense but is too vague. Your body cannot be stiff and rigid and flexible and strong, all at the same time. If you are stiff and rigid, your muscles are contracted. If you are strong your muscles are contracted. If you are flexible you are relaxed. I can only imagine that instead of flexibilty, you meant mobility - the ability of a joint to move through a dynamic range of motion, in which case I would agree with you, however I feel as if you are suggesting the shoulder flexors should be passively stretched at takeoff. Although at the same time you are saying you need to be strong, which implies the opposite. As I said earlier, the shoulder should and does get stretched back into the reverse C, however this motion is still resisted eccentrically by a lot of muscles (specifically the shoulder flexors). It has to be or else your arm would get ripped off. And I do believe there is a pre-tensing of muscles just as in a depth jump. Just because muscles are pretensed, does not imply that a person is rigid.

[EIUvltr]

Can't argue with that ... much. My main point is that the "hit" that the top shoulder takes (or should take) is more efficient if it's at the C ... and not on takeoff. That is, the resistance with the top shoulder should be "just hanging on and squeezing" ... rather than preventing the shoulder from driving thru. If you want to minimize leakage, that is.Kirk

This is probably too subjective of a topic for any of us to agree on, but let me just say that I do not think the vaulter should or could prevent the shoulder from driving thru, I do believe this should be resisted though due to the increased efficiency of a stretch reflex in a contracted muscle than a relaxed one. It is similar to when the left arm extends at take-off. Most people believed this was indicative of the left arm pushing the pole, but in actuality the left arm is pulling the pole but the pole is bending away from the vaulter harder than the vaulter could ever pull. This results in an eccentric contraction of the left arm. The same thing happens at take-off, what appears to happen may not be what is actually happening. The shoulders resist the backwards movement of the hands, but must succumb to the sheer magnitude of the force, until a momentary isometric is reached at the reverse C, followed by a powerful concentric contraction. You could actually call this a Plyometric action if you wanted to.