My HS Sr. Year Training Blog (by Joe Six-Pack)

[joebro391]

and 6P i was asking what the electon had to do with it, i knew that the whole 6 pack thing was a nickname jeeze.

HAHA, sorry, my bad

[KirkB]

Oh BTW, due to the camera angle, I can't see your right hand on the bar, but it sure seems like you've reversed it. No? The thumbs of both hands should point towards each other - just like when you do giants. If you reversed your right hand, tell me why. Then tell me why I'm recommending a "normal" grip - if you can.

Kirk

OH, so my logic behind my grip is simple. Most people can agree, that the pole becomes like a high-bar in a full vault. This is even more clear when you think about how most of the methods used to add energey to the system (or at least, the methods used, to NOT LOSE engery) are similar to that, used on a High-Bar. EX: keeping arms long and what not. SO, my grips is this (AS A RIGHTY) left palm faces away from me, and right palm faces towards me. that would simulate the pole, after it bends, and twists to the left, in the box. cool??

Not cool.

You are on the right track in trying to simulate the various vault parts on the highbar. But I'm afraid that you've taken this to the extreme, to the point of it being incorrect. Here's why ...

Ideally, what you want to do on the highbar is to hang just like on the rings, doing this same drill. The rings let you twist either hand any which way. So without thinking, you twist them to their "natural" position. Take a look at your natural hand position on the rings. (I just did.) It's actually closer to "thumbs pointing to each other" than to the way you hold them on a pole, isn't it?

PP had already corrected you on this re highbar Bubkas, so I'm surprised that you didn't heed his advice.

The point is that the way your hands hang doesn't need to be identical to the way they hang on the pole. YOU'RE NOT TRYING TO SIMULATE THAT PART OF YOUR VAULT.

You see, without intending to, what you've done is to artificially force more of your body weight and swinging motion to your BOTTOM ARM - which is the one that's hanging "correctly", with thumb pointing inwards. This is due to the way your arm muscles and bones work. In this drill, they're WEAKER when you hang "unnaturally". THAT'S NOT WHAT YOU NEED TO DO! What you need to do is to focus on the actions of the TOP hand/arm, to simulate putting most of your weight on the TOP HAND, and swinging from it. (However, with the exception of the lead knee, treat this drill as a symetric one - equal weight on each hand. Trust me on this for now. Once you actually start doing it correctly, THEN we can debate the ADVANCED technical details of this.)

You may have missed some of my posts on other threads about just using your bottom arm for balance (minimal distribution of body weight to it) - in the INITIAL part of your swing. But once you understand that point, you will realize that reversing your grip as you have will only make this problem worse. You will find later (after IMPRINTING this bad behavior) that you'll start putting too much weight on your bottom arm during your swing, and you'll wonder why.

You see, even tho you're correct in your understanding that the pole becomes a highbar, the DIRECTION of that highbar changes from a forwards angle to a side angle over time - during your swing. When you INITIATE the swing (which is what we're doing in this drill), the direction of the highbar isn't the same as the direction of the pole, so don't even try to simulate that!

Also, does my comment about setting the rope up to the INITIAL directlon of the pole on takeoff make a bit more sense now? And yes, THERE you need to grab it just like on the pole!

Trust me, on the highbar, point both thumbs towards each other!

And as PP just interjected a minute ago ...

It will also tend to turn your body to the left.

This is asymmetry that you need to avoid!

Kirk

[KirkB]

PP, I think 6P is getting there re Questions 1-7 ... slowly.

Go ahead and try to correct whatever you think he's mis-stated or under-stated.

Kirk

[joebro391]

You see, without intending to, what you've done is to artificially force more of your body weight and swinging motion to your BOTTOM ARM

actually, when i do these, i feel more weight on my TOP arm...weird. BUT, i'll do them the way you sugguest, simply because you're BG Sr. hahaha. unless that changes your mind. but then again, you said we'll discuss the advanced technique when i get the normal ones down, so that works. let me get these, and we'll go from there

Also, does my comment about setting the rope up to the INITIAL directlon of the pole on takeoff make a bit more sense now? And yes, THERE you need to grab it just like on the pole!

mhmm, i was just gonna comment on that. i think it's a GREAT idea

[powerplant42]

I'll do my best.

1. You must be able to reimprint CORRECT things as your body develops physically.
2. Probably not. You would need a large amount of luck. Very large.
3. Not until you reimprint (adjust) your technique.
4. Your head.
5. He knew how hard to jump/rotate and when to extend his legs based on imprinting correct technique (which initially began with the confidence to try).
6. Hex. (6P, I'm not going to waffle... you need to read up a little on 'types' of strength. Check out some of the threads in here, most notably "how should I weight lift" and "summer weightliftign schedule". And no, that was not a typo! )
7. Hex. Strength is not as important as knowing how something like a somi feels.

[joebro391]

6P, I'm not going to waffle... you need to read up a little on 'types' of strength.

are you to tell me, mister, that you do not know the difference between static and dynamic strength?? hell, dynamic strength, is what makes vaulter and gymnasts, golden haha

[powerplant42]

Yes, but I feel that you might be confused. Your terms are definitely unconventional, and for coaching the vault, that's fine, but strength is another story entirely. Explain each in detail then, if you know so much!

[KirkB]

OK, let's wrap this up ...

1. Now is imprinting good, or is it bad?

Imprinting is good, provided what is being imprinted is proper. Especially in an event such as pole vaulting, things must eventually be done, subconciously. If people couldn't do things, naturally we'd never be able to sleep, cause we'd always be telling ourselves to breath haha (to the extreme)

1. You must be able to reimprint CORRECT things as your body develops physically.

As you both say, it's good provided you're imprinting proper technique. But I was also expecting you to state the inverse of that. Imprinting IMPROPER technique is often worse than not training at all. That's because you have to unlearn your bad habits before you can start imprinting proper technique.

2. So if I have a lot of power in my legs, and I'm fearless, then I too will be able to do a standing front somi?

Potentially. It helps to have leg power and be fearless, but you must also have proper technique, which is aqquired through practice.

2. Probably not. You would need a large amount of luck. Very large.

I wasn't looking for "fearless" or "luck" as answers. I was trying to lead you towards "you must have proper technique", which 6P eventually got, but I'm deducting one point from him for his spelling of aqquired [sic]!

I was also trying to lead you towards "you must have a proper understanding of the trick". I'll elaborate more on Q6-7, as that was the whole point of the Hex/Penz/Kandew story!

Think about it ... if you've never heard of a front somi before, and have never seen one demonstrated, all the fearlessness and luck in the world isn't going to help you much! Even once you get this knowledge, you still need to learn it PROGRESSIVELY. i.e. Roll over on the floor, hand stands, back bends, back handsprings, THEN back flips. 6P, you told me yourself that you started training to do this trick when you were THREE! You learned it PROGRESSIVELY, didn't you? Over years and years! 6P, how do you teach your kids in your gym class a back flip? Suppose it's a person that's never even done a backwards roll on the floor before?

3. So if I lift heavy weights to get even MORE power in my legs, then my standing front somi will be even more perfect?

No, in order to do a front somi, you must be able to utalize the swinging motion of your arms. If you have strong legs, but can't iniate the roation of your body, you'll jump up, start to lean forward, and crash on your back or butt.

3. Not until you reimprint (adjust) your technique.

I think you both get this one now. But another point off of 6P's score for his spelling of utalize [sic]! 6P, you may just need a full ATHLETIC ride!

4. If I cut my somi speed of rotation in half, what would I land on?

a** haha. or back, depending on how high you initaially jump. personally, if you jump real high, but CAN NOT start the rotation, you'll land on your back, and it'll suck haha

4. Your head.

Yeh PP, you go to the "head" of the class for your answer! I wasn't looking for anything complicated here. If you need to rotate 360 degrees, and you go half speed, then 180 degrees lands you on your head! Another point off 6P's score for the word "initaially" [sic]!

5. In your standing back somi, HOW were you able to land on your feet?

Confidense, Ability, Luck. I only say luck, because i HAVE seen pro-gymnasts over-rotate and land on their arse

5. He knew how hard to jump/rotate and when to extend his legs based on imprinting correct technique (which initially began with the confidence to try).

“Ability” was a key word that I was looking for. “He knew how ...” is correct too. Really, the full answer includes “knowledge, visualization, practice, coordination, technique”. Do you see now how much more important these words are than “luck” or "fearlessness”? Another point off 6P's score for “Confidense” [sic]!

6. If Kandew took the time to coach both Hex and Penz, who would master the trick first?

I believe that Hex would master it first because, although Penz is strong, since he's only been 'lifting' he has 'static' strength, not the 'dymnamic' strength, that Hex has from prior vaulting and training.

6. Hex. (6P, I'm not going to waffle... you need to read up a little on 'types' of strength. Check out some of the threads in here, most notably "how should I weight lift" and "summer weightliftign schedule". And no, that was not a typo! )

6P: No, it’s not even about static strength in comparison to dynamic strength. It’s more about coordination and technique in comparison to brute strength. Another one off for dymnamic [sic]!

PP: I won’t waffle either. I’ll agree with you! But I was trying to lead you guys to the correct answers of “knowledge, visualization, practice, coordination, technique”, and you got sidetracked onto different aspects of “strength”. I would have included strength too, but since you already had that part, the correct answers were any of the other 5, which neither of you got. Shame on both of you!

7. Who would master it best, and why (say, after one month of practice)?

That honestly depends. I mean, look at Tim Mac. He only went 13'6 in high school. i feel it really depends on the students learning curve and 'WANTING' of the move. but really...my money's on Hex, again haha

7. Hex. Strength is not as important as knowing how something like a somi feels.

Hex is the man. You better believe that Penz isn’t going to pick up such a complex event as pole vaulting in a single month! No Hallowe’en Vault for Penz! But hey, give him until next Spring, and he’s going to turn some heads!

I hope we’ve just about exhausted this little quiz, but if there’s followups, let’s get them out of the way. Like I said, you need to understand these fundamentals before we move on the the REAL knowledge, visualization, practice, coordination, and technique stuff!!!

There may be more than these - this is just off the top of my head. If anyone else has anything else to add, by all means, please add. After all, I'm not writing a book - I'm just tossing out a few ideas onto a web forum.

Now that you know all the answers, go back and read the Hex/Penz/Kandew story again. Notice how I almost HANDED you the answers!

I admit that the Kung Fu (TV series) hints were much deeper! Ha! Ha!

Lessons learned ...

Pay attention to all the Kans on this board. They have the pebble in their hands. It will take awhile before it's snatched away. And one lucky snatch doesn't cut it either. To succeed, you'll need to "get it" on a consistent basis!

So pay attention, and FOCUS on the IMPORTANT stuff!

Any more lessons learned?

Kirk

[KirkB]

Hmm ... I see that on the Are straight pole drills worth it? thread today (about an hour ago), Master Kan VTV echoed my sentiments ...

... the essence of change is to remove all distractions and focus on one thing at a time. ...

also as far as numbers goes... i believe the goal should always be to better yourself

if your numbers get better and better as time goes on.. then you can be proud reguardless of what the numbers themselves actually are!

This is the essence of incremental, iterative, progressive training! Break the vault into its component parts, focus on each one individually (gym drills, track drills, pole drills ...), start connecting the dots to join adjacent parts, then put it all back together again - HARMONIOUSLY!

!!! Focus !!!

One point off for his typo, tho. Ha! Ha!

Kirk

[joebro391]

Well my answers at least got progressably better, despite what there finally were haha. And i can't help that i'm a bad speller!! haha i was tired last night from my meet and all the driving. I will now post about the meet, in my next post (no footy this time )

[joebro391]

Hey guys, new post. This one is gonna discuss the Halloween Meet that I participated in, yesterday. Now, as stated before, I've been working on short runs, on small poles, to better my technique, the past few months. So honestly, I was rather unprepared for the meet. I had a lot of self-arguments with myself as to how i should compete (what run and pole to use). In the end, i decided to compete from 6 Lefts, on a 14' 145 Pacer, gripping 13'3. Honestly, it wasn't a bad mix either. I was actually blowing through the pole, but i'll get to that later.

So the weather was beautiful. It's been rather chilly here, but yesterday, it was a very comfortable 65-degrees. Had the conditions been any less, i would have probably just competed from 5 lefts on a 13' 155 or 160, but anyway. So i come in at 12'. I make it, on the first attempt...but just barely . I had plenty of height, but i narrowly landed on it. not a huge problem so it was all good. I pass to 13'. First attempt, i knock it off on the way up, cause i just crushed the pole. So, instead of moving to a larger pole, or a lower grip, (stupid) i just push my standards back...and I come crashing back down on the bar. Third attempt, i stay on the pole, keep the grip and bring the standards a tad in...and i blow through again and knock the bar off on the way up. SO, i was upset, but i knew what was going on so i wasn't too mad.

What the let me do is, although i'm OUT of the competition, they say "hey, if you want to jump at the next height, we'll let you, but you'll be recorded as only jumping 12' today". so i say sure, why not. So i pass to 14', and i go and get a hefty 14' 155 Spirit(stiffest pole i've ever been on; cleared 14' on it, from 7 lefts, but it's my only option). So the bar goes up to 14', and on the first attempt, i...i'm not quite sure what happened exactly. I got up, and...i just think i ran myself under, and i ended up bailying out (you know, that bail-out where you start to invert but don't rock back and kinda just drop to your feet). So the second attempt, i run through because i just feel that i've planted too late. So now i'm frustrated. I GO BACK DOWN, to the 14' 145 Pacer and get ready. I'm worked up, so i move my step back a few inches (82'3) and...with the standards all the way back...blow through

Honestly...i'm not that upset. I know, that i went to 6 Lefts and competed on it without much preperation. I haven't been on a 6 Left approach in over 2 months, I didn't have the timing down (which explains some of the late plants when i got worked up), I didn't have a consistent step for obvious reasons, I had no clue where to set my standards because i had never been on the pole, from that run, AND i don't feel that i worked enough on 13' poles yet, to transition the technique over. I wasn't getting caught in a bad V position so much, but that's not to say that i wasn't getting off the pole as well has i have been, lately. I think i was kinda just anxious/nervous and was rather quick to get off the pole, so i shot outward a bit.

BUT ANYWAY, the moral of the stroy is: don't rush your training. Don't get pressed into moving to a longer run, and a longer pole before you feel that you've IMPRINTED the proper technique from the shorter runs and smaller poles.

SO, i plan to keep on the 3, 4 and 5-left approaches for a bit longer, and than slowly transition onto the 14' poles, as originally planned. All in all, the jumps weren't horrible (so i heard, i decided not to film so i wouldn't have so much pressure on me). So yea, back to the "REGULAR" regime and i'll go from there. -6P

[powerplant42]

Sounds like a lot of excuses there, 6P!

Some advice: Don't change step number during a competition. (Maybe I'll do this this season, but just to clear a winning height from 3-4 in order to save energy for my PR attempts. )

So, instead of moving to a smaller pole, or a lower grip (

Did you mean bigger?

Six pack, I'd like to get some of your numbers. Flying 20 with and without the pole, bench press, squat, long jump, vertical jump, stiff pole grip from 3 lefts, etc. Whatever else you can think of.

Last pieces of advice: Figure out everything you possibly can.Figure out your run NOW. I sincerely hope that you didn't do a RUNBACK at this meet... that would be a disappointment (although you may not have been enlightened yet). Get your length consistent. Find your MID. Learn how to use the MID. I feel that you might be making poor run alterations, due to calculations being done on the take-off step instead of your MID. Figure out which poles should be used for what situations (tail/head wind, feeling good/bad, shallow/deep box, sloped up/down runway, warm/cold day, etc.). If you can figure things out before hand, you will not run into so many problems at meets (with things like blowing through). In preparation for a meet (even this one) you should have gotten on your long run the 1 or 2 practices before (at least a few times) in order to be ready to jump.