Charts - Periodization, Intensity, Volume, Performance, etc.

[powerplant42]

Before reading/posting:
Please, no 'green' posts... This is an opinion(ish) question, but I don't want another high school kid's opinion, I want someone preferably with a degree in a fitness related area, or a wealth of knowledge on the topic that has accumulated over decades to give me THEIR opinion. This is NOT a normal 'training forum' thread. PLEASE respect my wishes... (I will add that 'reaction' posts are okay, but not posts that describe your own opinion on the issue... I believe this is a very complex area.)

What "charts" (that graph recommended amounts of periodization, intensity, volume, perfomance, etc. for a season, year, whatever...) do you believe to be the most reliable/accurate, relevant to vault-specific training, (which we have discussed in my 'fitness of pole vaulters' thread,) useful with your/your athletes' training, and I guess just all-around best? Here's the tough part though: WHY?
Here are a few links to some of these charts that I'm referring to if you need a refresher:
http://www.performbetter.com/catalog/ma ... PieceID=42
http://users.compaqnet.be/cn000760/ill/ ... rogram.gif
http://api.ning.com/files/27eQUrH4pnEIe ... Effect.jpg

How have you applied it? Did it worked as well as you thought it would?

[KYLE ELLIS]

I don't know if I qualify, I have a degree in exercise science and I have been around polevault and the likes of my dad, tim mcmicheal, the dial's, earl bell etc. etc. since I was 10.

So you can delete this post if you want. I think a vaulter like any other athlete needs periodization in their training, but it has to be different. As you get stronger and faster you move up to bigger and bigger poles. So I would think that a vaulter trying to do well indoors (for an example) would try to hit a peak mid january and maintain through february. The reason I say this is because 1- It gives them more oppurtunities to jump on new bigger poles 2- More attempts at PR's, some time it takes a while to get over the mental barrier. A sprinter would try and peak out at the end of February or whenever the big meet is on their schedule. If pole vaulters trained through the middle of the season they will be sore and forced to jump on smaller poles, and lower heights. Then when they peak out they will start blowing through all of their poles, and only see the bigger heights a few times. Plus vaulters need meets to get their routine down (warmups, starting height etc)

My point is vaulters are different from sprinters or long jumpers because as we start to peak out new circumstances arise; since the polevault depends on being on the right pole just as much as it depends on speed and technique.

[powerplant42]

Kyle: You were the main person I was trying to draw into this discussion! Of course you qualify!
I'd also like to see Laxpv and a few others join in, maybe Rick Bagett and DJ too...

But anyways.

You say:

As you get stronger and faster you move up to bigger and bigger poles. So I would think that a vaulter trying to do well indoors (for an example) would try to hit a peak mid january and maintain through february. The reason I say this is because 1- It gives them more oppurtunities to jump on new bigger poles 2- More attempts at PR's, some time it takes a while to get over the mental barrier.

How can this be represented visually? HAVE you used a periodization chart before? Why/why not? If you have, what one(s) have you used? Did you like the concept, how a certain graph was set up, etc.?

I think a vaulter like any other athlete needs periodization in their training, but it has to be different.

How so? Why do you think this?

Forgive me for so many questions... I am very curious as to how I can begin to apply these charts in the most productive way I can for the rest of my vaulting/coaching career!

[baggettpv]

Well let's see....
I think the physical part of the performance has been soundly defined by science. Interpretations and applications for individuals will be based on the coaches evaluation of the needs of the athletes involved.
I like your interest in the scheduling of technique performance but what is missing is a series of numerical comparators that can be applied to the schedule. Andjei taught me that there are 3: grip heighth, pole size and effective clearance. Now with these variables to blend into the physical it becomes a very serious thing. So take the Grip Heighth and do a task analysis on it to develop a schedule of learning activities (I have a simple book on this), same with the abilities to jump on bigger poles and a system of developing the movement to a handstand from a swing (same book).
I will look at this integration of technique learning and physical training. But I have already put a basic yearly training program on myspace.com/baggettpv in the blogs.

I'll be back,

Rick Baggett
WSTC LLC
Ps: I will be in Reno but not on the speaker list. But if anyone wants to have a personal talk I am open. We could find an open place and schedule a talk.

[KYLE ELLIS]

How can this be represented visually? HAVE you used a periodization chart before? Why/why not? If you have, what one(s) have you used? Did you like the concept, how a certain graph was set up, etc.?


Forgive me for so many questions... I am very curious as to how I can begin to apply these charts in the most productive way I can for the rest of my vaulting/coaching career![/quote]

Honestly I don't think there is a scientifically derived chart to match the uniqueness of the pole vault. I made up my own training plan/ periodization chart. I didn't try to incorporate micro-cycles into my training plan. I would have a hard day, then a down day. So I would vault, then do my sprint workout, then my plyo workout all in one day, that way I would have a certain amount of days for my CNS to recover. I bombed out my senior year because I would do a CNS stressing workout nearly everyday (they were spread out over the week), if you are training year around you have to learn your own fine line of pushing yourself and letting yourself rest. If you are coaching college kid's I wouldn't lose sleep on trying to develop the perfect training plan/ periodization chart. Just make sure they are in shape and get some down time to recover.

[Lax PV]

I think as far as how the pole vault differs from other athletic events is that we often train at the level that we are currently competing at (disregarding going from a shorter approach in practice, and getting a little more amped up for a competition). That makes me really concerned with intentionally varying the intensity curve. I have made up curves and annual training protocols until I was blue in the face, and then I find that something inherently goes wrong (one week is too big of a jump, someone gets a little banged up, the unloading week isn't as unloading as you would have thought etc).

As long as the athlete is getting more and more 'athletic' throughout the year--faster, increase in relative strength, plyometric ability--I think the poles are bound to change, 15m flys are bound to get faster, grips will go up. In the vault, I have heard numbers as high as

"By mid January one should be jumping at about 95-97% of what they plan to jump at the indoor season climax."

97% seems kind of high at first glance, but after looking at the numbers, for an intermediate vaulter (~15') that is another 6-10" which can really help out come competition time. As far as quantifying the exact numbers, again, I like to see about a 3-5% increase from January to March. To do this, rather than map out big curves, and get all exact with things, I tend to get a rough guide. i.e. In November they should be running these kind of splits in their 200s, lifting these kind of lifts (we have talked about my style of periodizing the lifts and tonage over reps and sets in another thread...) and given the type of multi-lateral training the athlete is doing, it SHOULD match the poles, grips and effective clearance. I am not sure if this exactly what you were looking for--but I can post again if it is not..

Best of luck to you--

Also--what kinds other methods have people looked into? Non-traditional, something novel--not the usual high reps low weight --> low reps and high weight.. ?

[baggettpv]

Let me throw this one out.
Technique is Psychomotor Learning Skill progression. It cannot be on a Periodization schedule. That type of learning is in a Sequential Learning Process. This learning process is best defined by the Whole/Specific/Whole model in Education within development. And this is where Talent comes in. Talent determines the learning curve. For some it's very steep and others...... not. But success isn't just based on talent. To develop skills takes time within a proven process. My most astounding athlete came from a 22 second 100 meters in Junior high to a best pv of 5.65 later in his career. Magnificent work ethic, great attitude and wonderful man. On the other end I have had a youngster with a lot of talent go from a 4.45 best in 7th grade to a 18'3" pr in HS. The learning progression has been the same. But...Think of this. The technique learning will be based on the physical development.
Well just some of my thoughts.

Rick Baggett
WSTC LLC

[powerplant42]

Thank you for the insight. KirkB has showed me how much what you wrote there can really apply to.

Yes, skills can not really be represented on a chart like these. I am speaking more about lifting during the off-season, pre-season, season, post-season (championship season), pre-season, season, post-season, back to off-season. This can be represented quite well by a chart. Kyle has mentioned already that he does not believe there to be a chart that is highly applicable to training for the vault, but how can I go about creating one?

[baggettpv]

If its for running training then:
you can use the total distance ran vs the intensity that it is ran.
Total distance = you know 2 x 5 @ 200 = 2000 meters
Intensity = % of maximum (pr)

What I like about this concept is that to increase the intensity you decrease the volume. You then culminate the training during the 5th periodization training schedule (the 6th is the championship times) into the correct distance needed for the run of the event. A good thing to do here is to run the athlete in a competition in a speed event to get your base for the next years training (if you think that far ahead).

Does this help?

Rick Baggett
WSTC LLC
myspace.com/baggettpv then blogs then Yearly training. Look at the progressions for Speed, Strength and technique.

[baggettpv]

Sorry after further review of this topic,
A chart is a general representation of a concept or a process of a basic idea or generalized information (Ed. Psych 496). Now a chart can be curved or it can be linear (ED. Statistics 512).
So:
All athletic components of an event are be curved BUT a performance (technique) itself is linear. The art to it all is to match the curves to the lines.

Rick Baggett
WSTC LLC

Meet in Reno? Have a discussion?

[powerplant42]

AHHHH, unfortunately, there is really no way I can get out to Reno... I don't think that $1,000+ and all that air travel is worth half a day. I live in Maryland, and I have school January 2nd. I'm broke anyway! I really would like to discuss this with you though. Will you be at the Penn Relays, NIN/NON, anything like that (assuming that I qualify)?

[baggettpv]

Well I do have a DVD of one of my clinics for sale. Give you 10 bucks off the normal price of 30 bucks. $20 and it's yours. Running drills, ground drills, a perfect description of the free takeoff and lots more.

Rick Baggett
WSTC LLC