weight gains / weight lifting

[jhesch]

anyone have any idea approximately how much weight is gained when weight lifting? for example, like 5 lbs. a month working out intensely, almost every day vs. 5 lbs. every two months, working out moderately? I want to get stronger and hopefully somewhat faster before spring season starts (I know its not much longer til then, and no we dont have any kidna indoor season or clubs here so thats why im workin out). Im gonna try to workout 4 times a week for approx. an hour each time legs and upper body for about a month and a half, and I want to make sure I'll gain enough weight to fit some new poles but not gain too much. however, I still need to find a precise scale, get my current weight, and I could monitor it from now until then. im just wondering if anyone knows approx. how much weight is gained when working out, and if protein or any other supplements help significantly increase weight gain (muscle, not fat)
jody

[KYLE ELLIS]

I wouldnt worry about how much weight you gain, it will be your end product and speed that get you on bigger poles. I dont know if it is good to lift the same muscles two days in a row, and I hope your doing the right kind of weight lifting. I say it depends on how much weights you have lifted previously on how much weight you will gain. For me I usually gain 5 pounds the first month and flatline there. You want to get stronger, more explosive, and faster while staying light as possible.

[das_1971]

I gained about 15-20 lbs lifting hard over the winter and few years back. A couple weeks later I was back to normal. Don't worry about your weight to much, its only a number on a machine. As long as you feel good and keep your flexability, youll be fine

[Robert schmitt]

I dont know if it is good to lift the same muscles two days in a row, and I hope your doing the right kind of weight lifting.

I agree, unless you are a genetic freak of nature It is improbable that your body will be able to recover from that work out. You probably won't see the results you'll like and increase your risk of injury because you are constantly breaking down muscle tissue every work out with out allowing time for your body to recover and repair the mucle tissue.

I've done probalbly close to 25-30 different types of weight training work outs (I'm kind of a gym rat) including the one you are considering. I've gotten the biggest gains from working out one bady part once a week for 45min to an hour ie. arms, chest, back, shoulders, legs. IMO if your looking to train specifically for the pole vault I would concentrait on gaining strenth from gymnastics and plyometrics not from the wieght room. Mr. Fairbanks gave a great explaination on that about that about a year ago.

[jhesch]

I agree with pretty much everything you guys are saying. I also used to be way in to weight lifting, running etc. and I would research it very often. However, I never really paid attention to how much weight I would gain. I also agree with doing bodyweight workouts because thats the weight your using in the air. The only problem is in some areas it is hard to train effectively, such as my back. Im decently strong in pull-ups/chin-ups, but not strong enough to get an effective workout so i prefer to go to rows, lat pull downs, etc. for back. same with shoulders. I'm not strong enough to do several sets of several reps on hand stand pushups.
Another article I was reading was explaining the concept of how plyometrics work, but it said that you can only do them so much until you reach a kind of plateau, and they recommended doing extensive weight training until you can- specifically, I remember them saying you should be able squat twice your body weight. Well I weight approx. 175 without being very big (instead the weight comes from my height 6' 2"). However, my legs are incredible long, and I'm not yet able to squat 350 lbs. (I'm workin on gettin 'em stronger, but they're somewhat on the skinny side due to cross country the past few years with relatively no weight training. Hopefully I'll get em stronger by track)
And when i lift, I definitely dont do same muscle groups same day. I tend to focus on chest, triceps, shoulders on one day, then back, biceps, and rear delts the next day, followed by legs, and do abs every other day. im gonna try to do this 6 days a week until track season comes-but I think it'll end up bein like 4 days a week because of school, work, and swimming.
thanks for all the input.

[Robert schmitt]

It sounds like you and I are built similar. I'm just a hair under 6'3". In that
<-----avitar I'm 177lbs on a 15'9" 190. So don't sell your current size and weight short, The proir years I was about 10lbs heavier and much stronger from lifting and wasn't able to get on those sticks. My coach made me stop lifting and just work on gymnastics and it really made a huge diff. It's really tech. that moves poles and gets you in the position you need to be in, not strength.

I probably harp on over weight training more than I should, I love lifting I've gone from being 6'2" 160 lbs when I started vaulting to 225lbs. 6-7% body fat benching 405, hip sledding 1100, doing lat pull downs of 360. Now I'm at 195 and about 75% of that strength based my max bench. When I was at 225 and my strongest (I wasn't vaulting any more) I went to a rock wall expecting to fly up it b/c of all of the wieght training I've been doing. I made it about three hand holds before I couldn't pull my self my self up anymore. 3 three years prior at 177lbs when I was vaulting I could climb up and down a 20' rope three and half times in two min. Will most vaulter lift to this extreme? probably not. But there are many who do.

I battle with this with the high school kids I coach. I'm only there 1-2 a week so I have limited contact with the kids. There is a PE teacher and coach who's answer to everything is the wieght room (like most HS coaches IMO). Last year during the off season they took a state champion girl vaulter and convinced her that If she really hit the wieght room and got stronger she would be that much better. Well last year she shows up beeing able to squat 225 4-5 times. Every coach thinks she is going to do great b/c of how much stronger she is and all the time she has spent (wasted IMO) in the wieght room. Well she was slower and less explosive and struggled to get to where she was the year before. This year she has been doing plyo and speed work I gave her and is vaulting over her pr already from a shrot approach.

My post is meant as a word of caution of equating being stronger to automatically improving the vault. The time and effort put into lifting dosn't alway return the beniftits you expect. especilly compared to investing that time and effort into other activities more vault specific. It's a concept that most of the coaches of all events at the HS I coach at cann't get through thier skulls. I always hear want to run faster - hit the wieghts, wnat to jump farther - hit the wieghts, want to throw that shot farther - hit the wieghts.

Please don't take this as an personal attack on your training plans. You description of yourself reminded me of my self. I was convinced mostly by former coaches I had that my problem was that I wasn't strong enough. When actually it was thier lack of coaching skill that was the problem. So I really over trained in the weight room. When I look back over all the stages of wieght and strength I've been at I think the 177 lbs was the best stregnth/weight/speed compo for me. Just trying to help you not make the mistake I made.

[mcminkz05]

well, if its any help, i think gaining weight is more a combination of how much you eat and lifting. Just lifting 6 hours a week id gain like 2 pounds a month or so, not enough to make a big differance. But during the summer i lifted 8 hours a week, and started eating a ton, and i gained 30 pounds in 2 months. It is almost all muscle, because i only lost like 3 pounds after a season of XC, and i still lift 8+ hours a week. So i dunt think liftign alone will change your weight too much. Just dont lose any speed! When i gained 30 pounds i actually got Faster after that, but i dont think that usually happens.

[rainbowgirl28]

You high school guys are still growing (even if you are not growing taller, your body composition is still changing), so how much weight you gain when you start lifting is probably not JUST from lifting.

[KYLE ELLIS]

You can jump high beeing skinny, just go ask jeremy hull!

[jhesch]

Robert I really appreciate what you said and how you dont want me to make the same mistake, and it sounds like good advice. if I understand you ocrrectly, I should focus on plyos, body weight stuff. what about pullups and pushups? It seems pull-ups would be beneficial being that vaulting, in terms of strength, focuses mostly on your back and shoulders in rowing and pulling. in terms of legs, anyone know some good exercises to do? I know of some from diving, just vasics like depth jumps, squats, lunges, and jumping lunges, etc. any others?
and I agree with you Becca, so far Ive gained approx. 10 lbs. and one inch (height) between each track season. we'll see how a fair come track season!

[Robert schmitt]

pull ups and push up are great! you can work your way into doing hand stand push-ups by slightly elevating your feet put them on a box/chair and as you can do more raise your feet even higher. Bubka's and wipers are great also to mix in there as well as building strength and engurance you are learning proprioception (body awarness) from hanging upside down. Dean Starky has posted some great speed and plyo work outs on his site vaultstuff.com. Jan Johnson"s sky system's II shows alot of imitative plyometric and bounding. Don't do bounding and plyo's more than once a week. They are very hard on your legs and you can train your self into an injury reletivly easily.

something like this might work.
mon- do some speed work on the track, form sprinting, flying 30's build ups etc..
Tue-bubkas/wipers/pull-ups/push ups etc...
wed-rest
thur-bounding or plyos
Fri-bubkas/wipers/pull-ups/push ups etc...

I just pulled this off the top of my head. I sure Mr. Fairbanks, Dean, and PV junkie would have some work outs that are more specific/tested then what I recommend on the fly.

[jhesch]

sweet. thanks for the info ill check it out.