WORST Vault Article I think I have EVER SEEN

[rainbowgirl28]

Yeah... just me but maybe you could dumb that last one up a bit for all of us less big wordy guys... kinda lost...

Adam said you vault like the guy in that drawing

[saraf]

Teaching term for analysing (sp) incorrect data. Resulting in a synthesis (cognitive) of known facts and results of the incorrect facts.
Simply put it's like finding the differences in 2 similar pictures in the Sunday comics.

Rikck Baggett
WSTC LLC
Building Trades Teacher

The protaginist of the antecedent exemplifies the malicious incursion from the proceding trancription.

Thamks (sp),
ME and my boy Webster... you know, the dictionary

[baggettpv]

HAHAHA guys, yeah what Adam said.

Rick

[bvpv07]

hahaha...this is just one reason why I polevaultpower

thanks for making me laugh

[altius]

Since I am in a good mood saraf I am not going to flunk you! so because of the obvious effort and the huge number of words - for you that is - you get a D -!

Just to get the debate started I suggest that folk take a good look at the very limited bend -almost non existent in some vaults - as in Bubka's first ever 6.00 metres jump in 1985 - and in others by Tarasov,Markov, Feofanova.

Also ask yourself where and when do you want the pole to be at maximum bend? - what are the implications of the tremendous - 90 degree plus bend before take off -shown in the article in question?

I realise these issues have been dealt with on PVP in the past but there are always newcomers who have not read those posts and who may find the topic interesting.

[EIUvltr]

I realise these issues have been dealt with on PVP in the past but there are always newcomers who have not read those posts and who may find the topic interesting

I thought you were the guy who hated repeating himself?

[robillard]

ok in overly simplified terms, if you bend the pole past 90 degrees you are "mushing" it. in other words you're putting to much energy into the pole and not getting anything out of it. the reason stiffer poles give you higher jumps is because they return more energy. if you run faster you put more energy into your run and will therefore beable to get on bigger poles. energy is not added to the jump it is simply returned by the pole and if its bending past 90 degrees you are losing a lot of that energy. theres a lot of physics behind this but thats basicaly it. the reason people like bubka get so high with those poles is cause the stiffer the pole the more energy thats returned, and you(general) cant get on bigger poles(general, not directed towards anyone) cause you dont have enough energy to carry you through the jump.

[EIUvltr]

ok in overly simplified terms, if you bend the pole past 90 degrees you are "mushing" it. in other words you're putting to much energy into the pole and not getting anything out of it. the reason stiffer poles give you higher jumps is because they return more energy. if you run faster you put more energy into your run and will therefore beable to get on bigger poles. energy is not added to the jump it is simply returned by the pole and if its bending past 90 degrees you are losing a lot of that energy. theres a lot of physics behind this but thats basicaly it. the reason people like bubka get so high with those poles is cause the stiffer the pole the more energy thats returned, and you(general) cant get on bigger poles(general, not directed towards anyone) cause you dont have enough energy to carry you through the jump.

I disagree. I do not think that a stiffer pole returns more energy. The vaulter and the pole create an energy system where no energy can be created nor destroyed. If a pole vaulter runs 2 identical runs with 2 different poles, a stiff one and a soft one (relative to the vaulter's abilities), he will load each pole with the same amount of energy, and the poles will return the same amount of energy. However the stiffer pole will return the energy in a shorter duration. What this does is help in changing your foward momentum into upward momentum because the pole is unbending when the cord is near vertical. A softer pole returns the energy over a longer duration which gives your foward momentum enough time to move the cord past vertical so when it unbends it sends you flying towards the back of the pit instead of up over the bar.

[EIUvltr]

...unless you are Kyle Ellis who can compress a pole more than anyone on earth (its true) and still have it unbend when the cord is vertical without "mushing" it. Although I think he is a half-God, kinda like Achilles.

[saraf]

Since I am in a good mood saraf I am not going to flunk you! so because of the obvious effort and the huge number of words - for you that is - you get a D -!

Just to get the debate started I suggest that folk take a good look at the very limited bend -almost non existent in some vaults - as in Bubka's first ever 6.00 metres jump in 1985 - and in others by Tarasov,Markov, Feofanova.

Also ask yourself where and when do you want the pole to be at maximum bend? - what are the implications of the tremendous - 90 degree plus bend before take off -shown in the article in question?

I realise these issues have been dealt with on PVP in the past but there are always newcomers who have not read those posts and who may find the topic interesting.

D- YEA!!!! thats the best grade I got in college so far!! no I am just kidding. But at least I passed my homework!!

When I did my homework I mentioned that the pole does bend past 90 degrees. I typed it then to make sure I checked one of my best jumps, granted that i am one to "mush" poles . Thats all the research I did. Since I am not that great of a jumper i just checked a few vaulters I would consider "good" Bubka, Sergej on his 6.11m jump, the pole bends more then 90 degrees and also on one of his 6.01m jumps this happens. I also looked at Danny Ecker, Jeff Hartwig, and Tim Lobinger. I am not arguring WHERE the pole bends at 90 degrees I am simply saying that they all bend there poles beyond 90 degrees. I was about to contradict my self and argue WHERE the max bend should be but I am not too good with words so i can't describe it. By the way. How come I only got a D-??

[altius]

I was only joking saraf! You got an A for effort - just didnt answer THE question!

To the other gentleman - I would suggest that you actually read my post. I didnt say I was going to post anything on this topic - rather I was proposing questions that others might answer for the benefit of newcomers. It could be a valuable discussion for them because the question of whether the pole should be bent at all on take off or whether it should be bent in the manner our Texan friend suggested, goes to the heart of the debate about modern vaulting(IE the Petrov/Bubka model) versus what can best be called a traditional approach.

So your making a contribution instead of a snyde comment might benefit all of us. Waddever as the old crafty one would say.

[robillard]

ok in overly simplified terms, if you bend the pole past 90 degrees you are "mushing" it. in other words you're putting to much energy into the pole and not getting anything out of it. the reason stiffer poles give you higher jumps is because they return more energy. if you run faster you put more energy into your run and will therefore beable to get on bigger poles. energy is not added to the jump it is simply returned by the pole and if its bending past 90 degrees you are losing a lot of that energy. theres a lot of physics behind this but thats basicaly it. the reason people like bubka get so high with those poles is cause the stiffer the pole the more energy thats returned, and you(general) cant get on bigger poles(general, not directed towards anyone) cause you dont have enough energy to carry you through the jump.

I disagree. I do not think that a stiffer pole returns more energy. The vaulter and the pole create an energy system where no energy can be created nor destroyed. If a pole vaulter runs 2 identical runs with 2 different poles, a stiff one and a soft one (relative to the vaulter's abilities), he will load each pole with the same amount of energy, and the poles will return the same amount of energy. However the stiffer pole will return the energy in a shorter duration. What this does is help in changing your foward momentum into upward momentum because the pole is unbending when the cord is near vertical. A softer pole returns the energy over a longer duration which gives your foward momentum enough time to move the cord past vertical so when it unbends it sends you flying towards the back of the pit instead of up over the bar.

technically yes you are right. energy is neither created nor destroyed. i guess wat i was tyring to say was that the energy is transfered more forward rather than upward because of the pole bending so much. i was thinkin in terms of a loss of upward force or somethin along those lines. but ya thats why wen you blow through a pole you land so far back in the pit. i was half asleep in class while i was typing this so i guess the words came out wrong.