Trail Leg- Tuck or Petrov?

[spike gibeault]

Hopefully you're doing that in a car, because if you're practicing staying down on the bottom in your vault you'll never "catch the wave."

i am not trying to stay down on the pole, i try to have an aggressive take off, jumping as high as i can, leading with my chest and driving my knee as high as i can. I hate "sagging" down on the pole and staying low to load the pole up, it is very inefficient and not what i am trying to do. i am trying to get a good drive to set up for a good swing.

What technical model do you follow that your "style" overlays?

i am trying trying to go along the "technical model's" of

brad walker
(http://www.stabhoch.com/movies/20060719_Walker_600.mov)
toby stevenson
(http://neovault.com/mem_vv_reno_05_stevenson18-8.asp)
derek miles
(http://neovault.com/mem_vv_reno_05_miles_18-4.asp)
nick hysong
(http://neovault.com/mem_vv_reno_05_hysong18-4.asp)
tye harvey
(http://neovault.com/mem_vv_reno_05_harvey17-10.asp)
Jeff hartwig
(http://neovault.com/mem_vv_reno_05_hartwig18-4.asp)
Jason Hinkin
(http://www.neovault.com/mem_vv_SBbv97_hinkin18-2.asp)
Justin Norberg
(http://neovault.com/mem_vv_season05_norberg_575.asp)
and many more

all of whom bend their trail leg when they are going to vertical

[achtungpv]

i am trying trying to go along the "technical model's" of

brad walker
(http://www.stabhoch.com/movies/20060719_Walker_600.mov)
toby stevenson
(http://neovault.com/mem_vv_reno_05_stevenson18-8.asp)
derek miles
(http://neovault.com/mem_vv_reno_05_miles_18-4.asp)
nick hysong
(http://neovault.com/mem_vv_reno_05_hysong18-4.asp)
tye harvey
(http://neovault.com/mem_vv_reno_05_harvey17-10.asp)
Jeff hartwig
(http://neovault.com/mem_vv_reno_05_hartwig18-4.asp)
Jason Hinkin
(http://www.neovault.com/mem_vv_SBbv97_hinkin18-2.asp)
Justin Norberg
(http://neovault.com/mem_vv_season05_norberg_575.asp)
and many more

all of whom bend their trail leg when they are going to vertical

Maybe you should try and follow the example of athletes that are using the Petrov model. Walker is the only one in that list that does.

[spike gibeault]

Maybe you should try and follow the example of athletes that are using the Petrov model. Walker is the only one in that list that does.

i am not trying to vault along the petrov model!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! and how does walker follow it of he collapses his trail leg!?

[lonestar]

Maybe you should try and follow the example of athletes that are using the Petrov model. Walker is the only one in that list that does.

i am not trying to vault along the petrov model!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! and how does walker follow it of he collapses his trail leg!?

Simple. He follows the "model," but his "style" overlays it. Just like Dmitri Markov, Jenn Stuczynski, and Svetlana Feofanova all follow the "model," but look differently when they vault due to "style." Read Beginner to Bubka and you'll understand.

[SlickVT]

It seems as though there is alot of grey area that allows for the Petrov model to look vastly different.

Overlaying Markov, Bubka, and Walker as using the same model seems ridiculous to me.

P.S. I am also seeing a trend developing here. It seems like the new craze is to end every discussion with "just buy BTB2". I may be wrong, but this is a public forum, and I do not see any rule where you have to buy and read some book that is continuously plugged down our throats in order to speak on topics that are included in the book. Furthermore, the book is being sold right here on PVP. I am a college student, and I can't afford BTB2 at the moment, so I would appreciate it if people were to stop using it as a trump card to make those in my shoes seem like we have no place speaking on this public forum. Thanks.

[altius]

Let it all hang out slickvt -I was certainly waiting for IT! Sure it is a public forum and you can say whatever you like - unfortunately as we have already seen in this topic individuals can put up the most stupid comments and apparently influence other people who know even less than the folk making the ridiculous posts.

The objective has always been to help move our understanding of the vault forward - and many good coaches have contributed to the debate - often heated debate - that must occur if we are to do that. Your contribution has usually been negative and taken the form of snide comments which add nothing to this debate.

Of course you dont have to read BTB2 to learn about the vault - you can do what I did - spend 20 years trying to help kids jump higher in safety without really having a clue what you were doing - certainly with no coherent model of the event -spent thousands of dollars to go to study coaches like Houvion in france, Krysinski in Poland, Krupsky in Germany, Petrov IN Formia, attend seven Reno Summits, provide board, lodging and funding for a year for Roman Botcharnikov, do the same for Alex Parnov, Markov, Chystiakov for four months - pass over a 15 grand honorarium to Alex so he could stay in Australia and then arrange a full time position for him.

Spend many more thousands of dollars coaching athletes - hundreds of them from beginner upwards - even more traveling with them to world junior and world youth titles from 1986 thru 2002 - going to Olympic and Commonwealth games from 1974 on at my own expense, to be with them in the most important competition of their lives.

You could have even really read the posts on PVP - for free incidentally - which have dealt with these issues over the past couple of years. However even though I doubt anything will change your habits as a habitual sniper, I will arrange to have a copy of BTB2 sent you free of charge; then at least you will something solid to complain about - you could offer your critique as a Masters thesis - or even for a doctorate in some institutions around the world. All you have to do is give me a real name and address - through private mail- and I will get it done. As a coach I always live in hope - perhaps you will have your epiphany when you read this book and become a reborn pole vault enthusiast.

[SlickVT]

I didn't mean for my last post to be a personal attack in any way, but a personal attack is once again the response. I guess I'm used to it now.

As a coach I always live in hope - perhaps you will have your epiphany when you read this book and become a reborn pole vault enthusiast.

I share that same philosophy. Lets see what happens!

[vault3rb0y]

I think the problem is that when people dont know you personally, altius, maybe they see the advertisement of BTB2 as just a form of making money. As you pointed out, you are not just in it to make money and have spent tons of your own money to promote safe and productive vaulting, and thats the key. Your book is not just about you making money, and it might be impossible to convince some people of that. Thats why when some kids need serious help or in depth tips on the vault, i refer them to your book. But it might not come off well to people who don't know you very well to suggest your book to them, when a lot of people come on this site for free advice. Give them some advice, and then suggest that for in depth discussions of WHY you suggest what you do, that your book is an option. Just a thought, but then again im still just an ignorant high school student.

P.S. ill take that free copy if you want j/k

[altius]

Thanks 3po. If writing books on the pole vault was an easy way to make money, why doesn't everyone do it? Perhaps it is because, as any one who has put up a single serious post on PVP knows, how long it takes, how hard it is - multiply that by a few thousands and you will have some idea what it takes to produce a book in which the argument is logical and supported from page one onwards - and then put it out there for everyone to take a kick at. It is there for all time - not ephemeral like most posts here - where even the great ones get rapidly shuffled to the bottom of the pile and are never seen by folk who really need to read them.

And unless folk haven't noticed I have made a fair contribution to that body of FREE information, knowledge and wisdom over the last few years. Even when writing for many hours a day I still tried to contribute something of value to the ongoing debate, However unless people do read BTB2 and take a look at the DVD they really are going round in circles - sure they are only two of many possible resources but unless they do study this attempt to clarify issues that have been bubbling here for years they are not serious about moving their knowledge forward.
The book is good enough for folk as experienced as agapit and bubba and the dvd apparently satisfied achtungpv. So why should I have to come on here and explain it all again.

Just for information I am just starting to rewrite my first book - on the teaching of games - which was one of my areas of professional expertise -not a hobby like the vault. so i wont have a lot of time to discuss whether folk should or should not buy BTB2. To get that process started I have been invited to speak at a conference on the teaching of games in England the weekend of Feb. 23rd. Leave OZ next wednesday and return via a day working at a Uni in Singapore Friday 29th - definitely off the air until then.

[spike gibeault]

You think you are more explosive, but you're not. By tucking at any point, you're absorbing energy that should have been put into the pole.

http://polevaultpower.com/6mclub.php

if this is not explosive, then how does tim mack have a higher push off than bubka and he bends his trail leg?

[powerplant42]

Tim Mack possibly has a better clearance technique, he definitely uses a higher weight index (by 3k), and Bubka is on a longer pole. Bubka also jumps 14cm - 39cm over T-Mack's PR (depending on your discretion)... Read the WHOLE chart. And Tim Mack could probably have an even higher push off/PR if he keeps his trail leg straight throughout the whole vault.

[altius]

"if this is not explosive, then how does tim mack have a higher push off than bubka."

As long as folk continue to believe the myth that Tim had a bigger differential than Bubka they will continue to handicap themselves and/or their athletes!

But I know this is not going to change your mind so why dont you just keep on jumping the way you are - and move as the saying goes. As I indicated previously, even if you did change your mind it would take a minimum of two years to rebuild your technique because there is a good chance you are tucking because of problems at take off and/or in the whip swing phase.