"Coaches Mark" "MID" Big Pole

[dj]

good morning

you guys know i'm not opposed to short run in many situations... the point i am hoping to make is that it takes "speed" to pole vault.

in the long jump for example.. you can jump, say 14' from 4 steps.. but to jump longer you will need more "speed". Either by accelerating those 4 steps more or moving back.. the same principles apply in the vault. and when you try and PR from a short run you will try and create more speed.. putting out more effort and sometimes more stress on the body... that is why i say it is better, many times, to use a little longer run and……. build for 3 lefts.. turn them over for 3 lefts and have more energy at takeoff with less effort and less stress on the body.

another down side to short run is "lunging" into the plant.. trying to create momentum instead of having the momentum and putting the plant up early and clean to use it to use it..

down side 2.. most of the time the athlete with a higher grip will try to "stay down" longer to get the pole closer to vertical before they swing.. that can create several "dilemmas" from a full run.. 1. if you stay down with more speed... of course you will need a bigger pole and more grip.. BUT.. you may not have a better vault.. because you will have to tuck to catch up with the pole…. and you will always have "pole dilemma’s" if you try to swing faster (on a big pole) to time up with the pole, you will not get to vertical and will run out of pole speed falling off the top.. if you try and stay down longer on a soft pole you blow through..

you can not jump “withâ€Â

[Bubba PV]

I think you're very clear DJ. I learned that I could vault very well until I had to run really fast. You sold me. As you said, you have to run fast to jump high so where did that leave me? That's why I move through my workout to 6L as soon as possible. Thanks for that invaluable advice!! Bubba

[VTechVaulter]

i just dont know how the same chart could possibly work for jeremy scot vs ray scotten. when i jumped my 5.40 my mid was 56'6 and the T.O was 13'1 holding 15'9. so most of it lines up except the mid, which is i guess my point about stride length. Also, a 13'4 takeoff for someone whos 6'5 is much different than a 13'4 takeoff for someone who is 5'6.

[Bubba PV]

I could be wrong but it could be running mechanics as far as hitting mids. I've seen it both ways. For example, at 17' where the mid is 51'. A friend of mine hit 52 'but couldn't make it whereas I made with 48' 6". You're looking for a consistent mark. For me I would be reaching to hit 51' and the other guy was over running and out of position at 52'. Hope this helps. Bubba

[ryansanta]

I used the chart my junior season from mid-season to states, and ended up winning. I like it and abide by it.

Edit: When I first found bubbas mid mark chart my freshman year I didn't look into it, but after reading dj's description I decided to try it out and I've went with it ever since.

[VTechVaulter]

well whatever works for ya

all i know is that even from short run my mid is never further in that 53 feet. and my running mechanics are just fine thank you

[Bubba PV]

VTechVaulter. I certainly meant no disrespect and wasn't directing my running mechanics description toward you and apologize if it was taken that way. I was merely answering why some people may hit marks and some don't. I COULDN'T physically get past 51' but I jumped 18'. If you're at 53', you're in a range to jump high and you have jumped high. Congrats and all the best to you. I'm happy to be a fan of yours and hopefully we can meet in Reno!! Bubba

[VTechVaulter]

no i know it wasn't mean to be disrespectful, i was just finishing with that thought. actually my mid from my 8 L approach is 56'2.. eeks. with a 13'3-13-4 TO when things are well, but ive only gripped like 15'9. i need to get my grip up, but easier said than done for some reason.

i just think that people are different and will have some variations. like i said theres a lot of good stuff on the chart, but it wont line up perfect for everyone. thats all

[dj]

vtechvaulter

i think i possibly saw you just last spring.. georgia tech?

you are ready for some serious heights..

if you can us a 53 mid from your short run with the right run technique and posture and the right speed.. 1.39 seconds for the last 6 steps you should be ready for a 15-9 grip and an 18+ plus vault from that run..

mike tully jumped 18-4 from 7 lefts with near misses at 18-8 with a 54 mid.. but he did have the speed, even from the short run to do so without stretching the steps..

and when comparing a 6-4 and a 5-6 vaulter... leg length or physical height does not create stride length.. stride length is determined by "speed". both vaulters you mentioned will have the same stride length if they are running the same speed. of course i have said it before the takeoff point is determined by the reach height of the vaulter.. taller in and shorter out a little more..

4 years ago marion jones 5'10 tall was beaten by Y. block 5'-4" for 100meters.. Y.Blocks' steps were 1/2" longer than marion.. for 50 steps for both and beat her by 24" at the finish..

i don't know if your stretching on your run or not without seeing you vault.. maybe your grip and vault just need to catch up to your run..

but.. when mike tully, who was 6-4", used a 15-3 grip for some easy 7 step warm up jumps he would hit a mid of 52ish. when the speed went up the grip went up and the "mid' moved out to match.. that way he was always maintained his posture and was getting his feet down into the plant.. making all vaults have the same plant and swing rhythm.. the only thing that changed was he ran faster and held higher..

later

dj

[jomrus]

Holy crap this post is a popular one, huh!! I haven't had the time to read everything, but there is one question I have. The grip to mid-mark ratio... I looked at the chart and I feel as though I've missed something. Either I'm running like an idiot... which by the way is a possibility I'm willing to accept... or I need to grip a lot higher. I'm gripping around-a-bout 15' and my check is between 55-56 on a 9 left approach. Now the bar height is not accounting for really anything. My grip last year from seven lefts was 14'9'' and I jumped 18'1''. So am I just holding too low? Because I like the faster recoil from the bigger sticks, so if I hold higher I'm gonna have to get on softer sticks, right?

[jomrus]

Oh yeah, and what are we considering short runs?

[dj]

good morning

or I need to grip a lot higher.

jomrus. i don't think moving the grip up to match the "MID" is the best way to go for you our vtech..

i think moving your "mid' in to match your grip.. is the way to approach improvement… a tighter “MIDâ€Â