Oklahoma Pole Vault Manifesto

[Bruce Caldwell]

What about the "low bend" vs "high bend" discussion that happens on occasion, and how that bend relates to grinding on the box? Is there even such a thing?

What do you think makes a "low bend"? Why? Do low bends grind more on the box?

Did Bubka and Bagyula have high bends? Yegorov? Dial?

If there is such a thing, is it pole design or takeoff angle or something else that primarily influences it?

Can a vaulter have a high bend one jump and a low bend the next jump using the same pole?

Yes the angle of the jump can create a low bend. I feel from a manufactures opinion that when an pole maker is trying their best to accomplish a reduced carry weight of the pole they can reduce the amount of glass and this reduces the stiffness in the lower portion of the sail. Now this does not make this a bad pole it is really more forgiving and allows jumps that might not be perfect at the take-off and if the pole does not bend into the pit the jump will be unhindered. However if you do not perfeckt the take-off the pole is more likely to bend into the pit and this pushes the energy up the pole for a premature pole return. Cutting the pole at the bottom (not recommended) is not a solution only feels proper and does simulate the roll of the pole. a properly built pole will roll with the energy and one can get that energy back.
No way can the athlete keep up with this action. And the coach will be yelling stay under longer hang!!!

[kwhit3]

I find the discussion of the pole tip being a little further out from the box to be fascinating and intriguing. Issues I would have never thought of or considered to be important turn out to be incredibly significant to the success or failure of a vault and could even contribute to excelling to an even higher level than originally thought possible.

My question is has anyone found what the furthest point the tip can be away from the box to maximize the effect? Where is the point of diminishing returns? You guys mentioned a tennis ball and that would create a very small margin, but obviously one that is significant. I’m not sure how much of a margin a towel would create (was it bunched or folded? Or just one layer in the box?) So what if you wrapped an inch of tape around the tip of your pole to create a huge distance for you pole to bend? Would that help or hurt?

As we all know, too much of a good thing is not always good. Where is the line?

Thanks for the input guys, this is a fascinating post!

[dj]

hey

go on line and do a search..

type in......... david f johnston pole vault patent

dj

[kwhit3]

It took me awhile to load all the patent information from the USPTO but it is very cool.

My question is who is using this? Anyone? And why wouldn't they if they had the chance? It offers a definite advantage, so why wouldn’t everyone use it?

Do you have some of these lying around and is it possible to buy one somewhere?

[agapit]

I believe the name is in use already. However the originality is the ability to hide your sources. There is no shame in this.

I have borrowed many things from others as well. I just hid it well.

[agapit]

In many respects, the larger athlete will find this jump difficult to execute for the same reason big people have trouble becoming world class gymnasts.

Tim I must make some comments. This is a long article so I will try to deal with a paragraph at a time.

First, we are not pocking at a straw man. We are dealing with mechanics. You on the other hand mention some concepts without supportive arguments.

The best explanation I have heard about the size of gymnasts (from professional gymnastic coaches) is the following: Larger people are on average weaker relative to their body mass. It is true for all athletic events. Coordination is impaired by the size of the person as well. Larger athletes on average are less coordinated than smaller ones.

This is why smaller gymnasts have advantage. You may be surprised but smaller pole vaulters have advantages as well including relative strength and body awareness. Taller vaulters have two obvious advantages; ability to grip higher and have more distance between grip on the pole and the center of gravity to extend during the push-off phase. However, larger vaulters have disadvantages as well; they are weaker relative to the body mass, they are slower on the pole.

I do not see a logical line in your statement above.

[agapit]

[quote="Tim McMichael"]
This is why I call it a “driveâ€Â

[Tim McMichael]

In many respects, the larger athlete will find this jump difficult to execute for the same reason big people have trouble becoming world class gymnasts.

Tim I must make some comments. This is a long article so I will try to deal with a paragraph at a time.

First, we are not pocking at a straw man. We are dealing with mechanics. You on the other hand mention some concepts without supportive arguments.

The best explanation I have heard about the size of gymnasts (from professional gymnastic coaches) is the following: Larger people are on average weaker relative to their body mass. It is true for all athletic events. Coordination is impaired by the size of the person as well. Larger athletes on average are less coordinated than smaller ones.

This is why smaller gymnasts have advantage. You may be surprised but smaller pole vaulters have advantages as well including relative strength and body awareness. Taller vaulters have two obvious advantages; ability to grip higher and have more distance between grip on the pole and the center of gravity to extend during the push-off phase. However, larger vaulters have disadvantages as well; they are weaker relative to the body mass, they are slower on the pole.

I do not see a logical line in your statement above.

You are making a point I did not feel necessary to explain. Anyone willing to read through a lengthy, rambling, and disjointed explication of vaulting technique is also likely to understand the relative effects of body size on strength to body weight ratio and kinesthetic awareness. Thank you for clarifying this point, however. The fact that smaller athletes have some advantages is one of the main points of my article, so I see no reason why I should be surprised by this.

My reference to the logical fallacy of the straw man relates only to those who believe that any hint of a tuck in an athlete’s jump is a sign of a fatal flaw and then proceed to criticize fantastic vaults based on that assumption. One of my goals in this article is to explain why a tuck is not always an unmitigated evil. Joe Dial and Therry Vigneron did not vault badly, nor does Paul Burgess and a host of others today.

[Tim McMichael]

I believe the name is in use already. However the originality is the ability to hide your sources. There is no shame in this.

I have borrowed many things from others as well. I just hid it well.

The word “manifestoâ€Â

[Tim McMichael]

[quote="agapit"][quote="Tim McMichael"]
This is why I call it a “driveâ€Â

[altius]

Have we just lost three pages???

[altius]

Sorry - just me being a dumb bunny -too much of the good stuff last night -red wine I mean!!