Big Bend vs. Smaller Bend

[ADTF Academy]

What is your take on this subject. To you what are the pros and cons of a big bend and a smaller bend?

What in your mind is the purpose of the bend?


What do you aim for a bigger bend or smaller bend?


How can you use one over the other?


Do you actually acheive what your aiming for when you jump?

[Barto]

We bend the pole to shorten the radius of rotation. Poles become less efficient at returning energy the more they are bent. Optimal bend for most modern poles ~95-100 degrees.

Barto

[swtvault]

The whole reason for a bending pole is to shorten the distance you have to travel (or as Barto said, shorten rotation.) Contrary to popular belief, the pole does not throw you. Fiberglass will only release less energy than was originally put in. What that means to us is that we must become as efficient as possible in all phases of the vault to minimize energy losses. That is the key.

I dislike a big bend because a big bend normally means adding time to your jump. Since time is energy, the energy losses on a big bend are normally high. What do you think the difference in air time are for a 13'6 vaulter and a 6m vaulter are? I think alot of people would be surprised to find out they are roughly the same! The 13'6 vaulter is doing so many things that add time to their jump, that they are in the air the same amount of time as a 6m vaulter! Think about that when you guys are training!

A little off topic, but I think these are some crucial points when discussing pole bend, and the like. The points I mentioned are exactly the reason so many people preach against driving the left arm, driving the bottom, and rowing. They add time to the jump and magnify energy losses.

[dj]

good morning

good questions and answers..

shorting the swing radius while having a high grip at the end/top of the vault is why the record has gone from 16 to 20'

a big bend(30% of the cord) is good and neccessary if of course it is a fast and "moving" vault..

t-macks 5.90 2004 trials jump was a good example.. he had a pretty big bend but the vault only took 1.43 seconds.. "loading" bending the pole only took him .49 or .51 seconds.. the remaining time was "unload"

with bamboo and even swedish steel...the "bending" played a part in how high the vaulters could hold and vault even in those days.. big vaulters would break a lot of bamboo and even some swedish steel.. they "folded" instead of snapping!!! ; )

off course the key is to bend with an "up' takeoff and keep moving so the pole doesn't break...

30% bend with a 16' grip means the grip is 11' from the but at maximum bend.. the 19 foot vaulter only has to swing a 11' grip to vertical!!

but the "how" and timing is big.....

dj

[master]

I dislike a big bend because a big bend normally means adding time to your jump. Since time is energy, the energy losses on a big bend are normally high.

I respectfully disagree. Time is not energy (at least not in the sense of kinetic or potential energy associated with the state of bend of a pole). You are correct about the amount of time a vaulter is in the air. It makes little difference whether the jump was 13' or 19'. If there is more loss of energy from a big bend that could possibly be that the pole is less efficient when stressed to it's maximum. One of the people on this forum with more knowledge about pole characteristics should be able to answer that more definitively.

With respect to the original questions, DJ and Barto have said it well so I won't repeat. I will add I personally don't strive for more or less pole bend. But I do try to be on the stiffest pole I can safely manage. That results in a smaller bend, but the bend is the result not the purpose of my pole selection for a jump. I hope that makes some sense.

- master

[Mecham]

Maybe not so much on how much, but, When should the pole bend? Or when should it recieve its "big bend" or "small bend"

[dj]

good morning

the biggest bend should be about the same time as when the back is passing horizontal to the ground.

if someone can post t-macks 2004 trials 5.90 jump it would help.. in my 30 years of coaching that was the best timing and use of a bending pole i have even done the data on..

ever..

dj

[swtvault]

Basically Master, I was referring to over-gripping. There is a point when too much bend (or grip) begins to effect pole speed and rotation. When this is happening, you most certainly are adding time to the jump.

[Mecham]

How much should the pole bend? like in degrees? I think we should focus on when the pole bends. Some high school vaulters i compete against like to swing right off the ground, and i think it would help a lot of people to know when the pole should bend.

[ashcraftpv]

How much should the pole bend? like in degrees? I think we should focus on when the pole bends. Some high school vaulters i compete against like to swing right off the ground, and i think it would help a lot of people to know when the pole should bend.

The pole should start to bend as soon as the tip contacts the back of the box.

There is nothing wrong with swinging right off the ground so long as its done correctly. Anyone who tells you to "hang" or "wait" or to "stay down" is wrong as doing so will only hinder your swing. What appears to be someone "hanging" should actually be them just "loading" their trail leg by pointing the toe back and starting the swing. This pointing of the toe back "loads up" the swing and makes it that much more powerful and quick than if you just swung right off the ground. Watch Bubka's 6.01m jump and just watch his trail leg. He does exactly what I described. Gymnasts do it too. They call it a tap swing or a tap slam.

[fx]

I always thought that this loading phase was so that you could get into the pit better. Otherwise, when you swing right off of the ground, the pole doest really get a chance to travel forward towards the back of the box. That way, the pole will not reach vertical, and you'll be left hanging over the box. If i'm wrong, can someone clarify for me what exactly allows the vaulter to move the pole and travel into the pit better?

[rainbowgirl28]

I look at it as if you are "swinging too early" you are not finishing your takeoff. I would never tell someone to wait before they swing. I would try to teach them how to finish the takeoff.