Short Run jumps

[joebro391]

Kirk: the only jump where i really see sooch flagging out is in jump 3 and maybe 5 (jump 5 looked a little 'squirrelly' all around to me though, so maybe that was just a bad jump). Remember, because the pole is so soft, it's moving inward, perhaps 30-degrees past the plain of the box (where say bubka would be parallel with the plain of the box, perpendicular to the ground). look at the position that he's in, at 0:30, that's a really good position. the pole's just not giving him anything to work with so it appears more so that he's flagging out. Sooch is consistently bringing his feet to his hands (for the exception of jumps 3 and 5), and extending properly (without throwing his head back). So I don't see any flagging out. Though, if you can convince me otherwise, you know i'm more than open to suggestions. -6P

[KirkB]

... look at the position that he's in, at 0:30, that's a really good position. the pole's just not giving him anything to work with so it appears more so that he's flagging out. Sooch is consistently bringing his feet to his hands (for the exception of jumps 3 and 5), and extending properly (without throwing his head back). So I don't see any flagging out.

6P, I looked at 0:30 again, and I looked at jumps 3-5 again. So let's talk about jump 4.

I agree that the pole is soft, but I disagree that he's "extending properly". Maybe "flagging out" isn't quite the right phrase, but he's certainly extending in the WRONG direction. To use KC's clock ... with 1 o'clock being back 30 degrees towards the runway, Sooch is at about 11 o'clock ... the same 30 degrees that you're talking about.

If he got his hips to his hands by rotating his body (during his swing) better, then he'd shoot straight up ... 12 o'clock ... and would go higher ... even with a soft pole. This is the technique that I feel he needs to learn ... before he goes up a pole. A stiffer pole will actually cause him to stop his rotation even more. But once he "gets it" (the technique), then he for sure should go for bigger poles.

Kirk

[sooch90]

hey, thanks for all the compliments on my takeoff. It means a lot coming from you guys, and most of my practices have been focused on my run and takeoff so I'm glad to see that it's improving

I've been using the approach that with a good run and takeoff, the latter parts of the vault like the swing and inversion should work themselves out. So this idea combined with the lack of proper gymnastics equipment has led me to focus on my run and takeoff. Plus they needed a lot of work anyway.

However, now that my run and takeoff are coming together at the short run, maybe it's time to shift some of my attention towards the swing and inversion. When I get back to vaulting, which will have to be limited to more short runs as I recover, I'll keep the things you guys have said in mind. I'll play around a little bit with my grip and pole, and see if I can focus more on my hips moving rather than my leg swinging or stay closer to the pole. I don't have an exactly clear picture about this yet, but I'll see how my practices go. One thing I do know, when I'm on a stiffer pole that I don't blow through on, my top end does get better. With this pole, I don't feel like it's resisting me and allowing me to stay in line with it as it recoils.

Here's another question though and sorry to go back to more run/takeoff stuff! What do you guys think about the last step of my run in those jumps? Before my surgery, I was working on being tall and taking my last steps with a straighter leg. I tend to take my last step with a bent leg which makes me shorter at the takeoff. Does my last step need more work?

Thanks for the feedback everyone, keep them coming!

[Andy_C]

hey, thanks for all the compliments on my takeoff. It means a lot coming from you guys, and most of my practices have been focused on my run and takeoff so I'm glad to see that it's improving

I've been using the approach that with a good run and takeoff, the latter parts of the vault like the swing and inversion should work themselves out. So this idea combined with the lack of proper gymnastics equipment has led me to focus on my run and takeoff. Plus they needed a lot of work anyway.

However, now that my run and takeoff are coming together at the short run, maybe it's time to shift some of my attention towards the swing and inversion. When I get back to vaulting, which will have to be limited to more short runs as I recover, I'll keep the things you guys have said in mind. I'll play around a little bit with my grip and pole, and see if I can focus more on my hips moving rather than my leg swinging or stay closer to the pole. I don't have an exactly clear picture about this yet, but I'll see how my practices go. One thing I do know, when I'm on a stiffer pole that I don't blow through on, my top end does get better. With this pole, I don't feel like it's resisting me and allowing me to stay in line with it as it recoils.

Here's another question though and sorry to go back to more run/takeoff stuff! What do you guys think about the last step of my run in those jumps? Before my surgery, I was working on being tall and taking my last steps with a straighter leg. I tend to take my last step with a bent leg which makes me shorter at the takeoff. Does my last step need more work?

Thanks for the feedback everyone, keep them coming!

With regards to the straight leg, yes I think it is bent and you should try and keep it more straight. Also in my opinion the purpose of the straight leg is not so much about height as it is about energy. If you have a free take off (or a pre-jump for that matter) and a good plant you should be maximizing your height. The straight leg is there to provide maximum transfer of kinetic energy from the ground up through your body. A bent leg will act as a sort of shock absorber that will reduce the energy transfer and will increase the time you spend on that foot. While you can do a more traditional "muscle jump" with a bent leg, this would mean that you spend a longer time on the last step which will reduce your horizontal speed. On the same note, this is why we take off with a flat foot and not from the balls of our feet. (Flat foot inbound, pushing off on our toes outbound). If our ankle is plantarflexed (toes pointing down), it will also result in a shock absorber effect with the ankle. As the foot hits the ground the ankle will dorsiflex (point upwards) from the force on the ground and the calves will absorb and waste energy. It's going to be very hard on your left leg and ankle but you have to be as 'solid' as possible. Take off on the straight leg (or at least as straight as you can - completely straight can cause a lot of wear and tear) with a flat foot. This ensures you don't have any "soft spots" and you can use the speed from your run up to help you jump. This compared to jumping from a bent 'soft' leg where you will have to sacrifice a lot of speed by prolonging the last step in order to get off an energy inefficient jump. You have to be "solid" - think billiard ball. When one ball strikes another there is a very quick and extremely effective energy transfer because both bodies are completely solid. If one of the balls were made of something soft like Play-Dough the energy transfer will be much less effective. The pole vault jump or "up-spring" is a bit less of a traditional "muscle jump" and a bit more of a "shockwave" up the body you generate using technique and speed. Of course you still need to use muscle but your last step needs to be very quick and solid - something you can't achieve with a deep muscle jump. If you want me to clear any of that up for you please let me know.

Otherwise yes, you should be trying to keep your left leg a bit more straight. The problem may be with your second to last step, it does look a bit deep. If your second to last step is very deep you will have no choice but to bend your take off leg more. Try and run up taller and a little more relaxed. Also I really can't tell how your last step is landing (ankle wise) so I can't comment. This is all mainly from what I can see with a quick look of your videos. I'll take a closer look later on and will edit in some things if necessary. Some of your jumps look a bit better than the others with this problem so I'm not entirely sure how consistently you're making mistakes or doing things well. But otherwise all the best!

[vault3rb0y]

I think that you are doing things really nicely and really consistently. The soft pole makes the illusion of a low take off angle, but im not convinced its as low as it might appear until you get on a stiffer pole. Everything i would advise you to do, I'm sure your coach already has a similar plan for you. I would say going back 1 or 2 lefts and keeping the same grip but going up 2-4 poles in stiffness would give you a pretty damn good looking jump. Not a lot else can be said at this point, it looks solid.

[sooch90]

hey, thanks for all the compliments on my takeoff. It means a lot coming from you guys, and most of my practices have been focused on my run and takeoff so I'm glad to see that it's improving

I've been using the approach that with a good run and takeoff, the latter parts of the vault like the swing and inversion should work themselves out. So this idea combined with the lack of proper gymnastics equipment has led me to focus on my run and takeoff. Plus they needed a lot of work anyway.

However, now that my run and takeoff are coming together at the short run, maybe it's time to shift some of my attention towards the swing and inversion. When I get back to vaulting, which will have to be limited to more short runs as I recover, I'll keep the things you guys have said in mind. I'll play around a little bit with my grip and pole, and see if I can focus more on my hips moving rather than my leg swinging or stay closer to the pole. I don't have an exactly clear picture about this yet, but I'll see how my practices go. One thing I do know, when I'm on a stiffer pole that I don't blow through on, my top end does get better. With this pole, I don't feel like it's resisting me and allowing me to stay in line with it as it recoils.

Here's another question though and sorry to go back to more run/takeoff stuff! What do you guys think about the last step of my run in those jumps? Before my surgery, I was working on being tall and taking my last steps with a straighter leg. I tend to take my last step with a bent leg which makes me shorter at the takeoff. Does my last step need more work?

Thanks for the feedback everyone, keep them coming!

With regards to the straight leg, yes I think it is bent and you should try and keep it more straight. Also in my opinion the purpose of the straight leg is not so much about height as it is about energy. If you have a free take off (or a pre-jump for that matter) and a good plant you should be maximizing your height. The straight leg is there to provide maximum transfer of kinetic energy from the ground up through your body. A bent leg will act as a sort of shock absorber that will reduce the energy transfer and will increase the time you spend on that foot. While you can do a more traditional "muscle jump" with a bent leg, this would mean that you spend a longer time on the last step which will reduce your horizontal speed. On the same note, this is why we take off with a flat foot and not from the balls of our feet. (Flat foot inbound, pushing off on our toes outbound). If our ankle is plantarflexed (toes pointing down), it will also result in a shock absorber effect with the ankle. As the foot hits the ground the ankle will dorsiflex (point upwards) from the force on the ground and the calves will absorb and waste energy. It's going to be very hard on your left leg and ankle but you have to be as 'solid' as possible. Take off on the straight leg (or at least as straight as you can - completely straight can cause a lot of wear and tear) with a flat foot. This ensures you don't have any "soft spots" and you can use the speed from your run up to help you jump. This compared to jumping from a bent 'soft' leg where you will have to sacrifice a lot of speed by prolonging the last step in order to get off an energy inefficient jump. You have to be "solid" - think billiard ball. When one ball strikes another there is a very quick and extremely effective energy transfer because both bodies are completely solid. If one of the balls were made of something soft like Play-Dough the energy transfer will be much less effective. The pole vault jump or "up-spring" is a bit less of a traditional "muscle jump" and a bit more of a "shockwave" up the body you generate using technique and speed. Of course you still need to use muscle but your last step needs to be very quick and solid - something you can't achieve with a deep muscle jump. If you want me to clear any of that up for you please let me know.

Otherwise yes, you should be trying to keep your left leg a bit more straight. The problem may be with your second to last step, it does look a bit deep. If your second to last step is very deep you will have no choice but to bend your take off leg more. Try and run up taller and a little more relaxed. Also I really can't tell how your last step is landing (ankle wise) so I can't comment. This is all mainly from what I can see with a quick look of your videos. I'll take a closer look later on and will edit in some things if necessary. Some of your jumps look a bit better than the others with this problem so I'm not entirely sure how consistently you're making mistakes or doing things well. But otherwise all the best!

Thank you for the response; this is great! I think I can really use the "solid" que to get a good, solid, straight leg and takeoff. You explained it really well. I think sometimes when I try to get as much spring as possible, I takeoff with a soft leg to give me time to try to jump as hard as I can.

Also, when you say my second to last step looks deep, you mean again it's bent as I take the step, right? Thanks for this observation! I didn't notice that before, but I think you're right. When my last takeoff leg is most bent/most flat, the step before is usually also pretty bent, and vice versa. Well, I guess I need to work on that second to last step too then haha

[KirkB]

I second Andy's advice re the "solid" takeoff ... and I like his billiard ball analogy.

Many vaulters have a penultimate step where they crouch a bit ... like a high jumper. While you won't (or shouldn't) COMPLETELY rid yourself of a shorter/lower penultimate step, you should strive to take off more like a longjumper ... stay more erect, and be more "solid" off the board. You're going to lose a bit of UPWARDS force, but at least you won't lose as much energy by braking (transforming horizontal force into vertical force) ... which is very inefficient.

You have to find the happy medium here. Some coaches (even in this thread) say takeoff flat-footed, but IMHO that can lead to the HJ style takeoff. I found that focussing on taking off on the ball of my foot ("solidly") gave me that billiard ball takeoff ... with minimal leakage. Even if your heel DOES touch the ground, at least it's only there momentarily ... without much actual body weight being absorbed by the heel. I suppose it depends on your ankle/foot strength tho ... I suppose if you can't avoid putting body weight on your heel then you HAVE to takeoff flat-footed. Solution? Drills/weights to strengthen your ankle/feet.

Kirk