16'5" jump

[trayoates]

3rd time jumping 5 meters! Ill be attending Samford University next year as a freshman. my PR currently 5.05... i weigh 172 and im 6'1"... all the other specs are in the video tell me what you think!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NAHe3nmAn3Y&feature=youtu.be

[KirkB]

Very nice, smooth jump! Good continuous motion, altho you do seem to "sit" a bit before you extend. You seem to be looking up at the bar at that moment, instead of dropping your shoulders and letting your head drop with them (as the hips come up).

In the C, I noticed your trail leg is a bit bent - it should be 100% straight. You'll get a better "full body whip" that way.

Pretty much Petrov technique, with the exception of sitting for a split second (where most vaulters usualling tuck). Keep those hips moving! How? By getting a faster whip!

Kirk

[trayoates]

Yeah I've been working on being "taller" at the takeoff. I often bend my right arm which really screws stuff up. I'm pretty good at being tall with short runs, it's just when I go to 7 that I tend to bury my head.. Just need more practice!! Any specific drills for that?

[KirkB]

If I'm not mistaken, it looks like you're bending the pole before you leave the ground. Are you doing that? Are you trying to do that? Do you recognize that as a flaw? I can't tell for certain, because I don't have slo-mo on your vid. Your answers to these questions might lead to more questions, or some advice.

The reason I ask is that I can't see your body posture on takeoff, but directly after takeoff (when I was able to freeze-frame), you look like you took off under, and you look like you might have been leaning back on takeoff - or got picked off the ground instead of purposely jumping up and into the takeoff.

i.e. You need to strive for a free takeoff.

I'm not sure what you mean by your bottom arm screwing stuff up, assuming that you're referring to during the plant (pre-takeoff). What you need to do is reach as tall as you can with your top hand, and your bottom hand will just go where it needs to go to plant properly. As long as the top arm is fully stretched, that should be all you need to worry about during your plant. Other than finishing your plant with a strong jumping action on takeoff. i.e. Stretch your plant up even further as you jump.

And yes, now that you mentioned it and I looked for it, you're NOT stretching your top arm up as high as it could and should be prior to takeoff.

I'm not sure what you mean when you refer to "being tall" and "bury my head" in the same sentence. When I was referring to not dropping your shoulders and head, I meant as you're swinging/extending - not during the plant.

So any specific drills that I suggest will depend on what you meant - which part of your vault, and what do YOU think you're doing wrong? i.e. What do YOU mean by "bury my head"?

Please recognize that anything that you SEEM to be doing wrong during the swing/extension (like "sitting") is not fixable on its own. Any flaw there can ALWAYS be traced back to something you're doing wrong in your plant, takeoff, C, or whip/swing. ALWAYS!

Kirk

[trayoates]

Thanks for the detailed response!

1. Yes I do bend the pole before I leave the ground and yes I tend to be 2"-4" under a lot. My coach and I have been working on getting my last step down quicker to achieve an "on" takeoff and eventually a free one. Being under makes it harder for me to jump up at takeoff. Also causing pretty bad left ankle pain I've been fighting for about 2 months.

2. I was referring to my top arm screwing stuff up when I bend it at takeoff. The combination of being under, not jumping up, and bending my top arm all mess up my vault.

3. When I say "being tall" I just refer to a high chest and fully extended top arm. I look at a lot of my vaults in slo-mo and it's obvious that I could achieve a 3"-4" taller plant. When I say bury my head it's when the plant hits the box that my chin goes straight for my chest instead of staying in a neutral position

4. An I know that every part of the vault feeds off of the part before it so that's why I'm working so much at the run and takeoff.

[KirkB]

Good self analysis, Tray. So imagine how much higher you'll be jumping when you improve your technique, getting rid of all these flaws!

Kirk

[bel142]

Nice jump,

I agree with Kirk,
If i were coaching you I would tell you the following... I would like too see more activity with the hands through the whole jump starting with the drop and I would like to see more integrity with the front arm at take off, I think this will come with more development as a person, as you mature as an athlete and train a little more you will gain strength in the areas that are needed to make big moves specifically within the shoulders and core.

At take off you call it "Bury the Head" I like to see my athletes drive the chest and then make a big move to crank on the shoulder. Although I say i like more integrity at take off with the front arm I don't mean to block your self out, but ideally hit and drive in and up with the arm/shoulder complex. So the chest is able to sneak in and the arms are able to open like swinging on a higher bar. Right now it looks like the front arm hits the top of your head, so if we were to do that same move but with more pressure in the front hand with pressure coming from the shoulder to create more space between you and the pole, that would be more ideal... This type of move will allow for a better angle at take off and puts you at a different position on the pole in terms of weight distribution. One drill to do this is run and drive on a rope, trying to extend your bottom arm where there is no pole but loose rope is surprisingly difficult to do... but it teaches you to put presser with the shoulder rather than the arm. I feel like the best way to describe it, is when you hold something really heavy right over your head with straight arms... its pressure right from the shoulder, doing that on the pole might help.

Just what I saw at a quick glance.

nice work, keep chipping away,
bel

[KirkB]

Nice jump,

I agree with Kirk ...

Bel, I don't see how you can agree with me, and then say something different re bottom arm or shoulder pressure - something that you know I disagree with (unstated in this thread).

Tray, I don't want to confuse you with 2 different styles, nor do I wish to hijack this thread to argue the merits of one style over the other.

However, I do want to point out to you that there are 2 schools of thought here - the one that Bel is advocating is "bottom arm pressure" (or as he more specifically calls it "bottom shoulder pressure").

I don't advocate that. I advocate no bottom arm or shoulder pressure whatsoever, because I believe that any pressure like that will slow down your swing, and cause you to not get you into an inverted position fast enough to extend vigorously skywards and over the bar.

For a quick comparison of the two styles compare the jumps of Otto and Lavillenie last weekend at the Pre. Bel, please clarify if Lavillenie's technique is not what you're advocating.

http://www.polevaultpower.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=31402

Tray, you and your coach will have to decide what style you're targeting, and then go for it!

Kirk

[bel142]

Morning, - no worries let me clarify I agree that being taller with the top arm, the jumper is a tick late/under and body position/posture at take off is not ideal... fixing those technical things is excellent advice that i agree with... But in terms of the front arm yes a different approach...

Although the Frenchmen is an example of the type of move i like... he is a shorter vaulter so its a little bit too pronounced because of grip height and what he is trying to do...

Chad Harding did it really well, I am having difficulty finding any footage of him... Gibilisco of Italy, and Hollis of USA are two good examples of different style of vaulter that throw the front arm and chest in that I think both are very successful and it works for them. I think these two vaulters are better examples of the type of move and front arm pressure.

But really Kirk wins the goldfish for what he said about coach and athlete discussing the method they want to approach... Your coach might be trying to do something totally different and you deciding to throw a big chest/arm in there might really cause problems without communication.

-bel

[KirkB]

... coach and athlete discussing the method they want to approach... Your coach might be trying to do something totally different and you deciding to throw a big chest/arm in there might really cause problems without communication.

Also glad that we amiably agreed to disagree!

Kirk

[altius]

Would like to see film from a better angle before I can fully comment on your take off. BUT check the width of your grip - I believe it is at least one hand too wide - this will impact the angle of the left arm as the pole is planted. Also I think you allow your hand to go to low as you initiate the plant - this may well lead to a less than perfect -ie 'free' - take off.