one in a million?

[altius]

"my take on this is that every jump is a one-off" Looks like plagiarism to me - I have made that point repeatedly over several years on PVP using exactly those words. I think PVDaddy took me to task for using it on one occasion - but of course if you run forty five metres carrying a heavy poe while running at close to 10m/sec then - as I have again repeated stated - it is pretty difficult to nail you take off perfectly every time. But on page 53 you will find "However even with Bubka every attempt was unique ,a one off,as all the varied elements come together in that instant of time."

By talking about distances in and out you clearly do not understand the pre jump/free take off concept. It is much more about timing than distance. But if you read Pages 241 - 243 of BTB2 you will find out what Bubka said about this element of his technique. The only thing is that he does not use the term pre jump -that is a term I coined. His notion of a free take off (i.e. being in the air before the tip touches) is what I decided to call a pre jump to distinguish it from a take off where the pole is not loaded but the toe is still in contact with the ground as the pole tip touches - which incidentally is/was Krzysinkis concept of an efficient take off. As you will see from BTB he was clearly intending to be in the air before the pole tip hit the box - if, as he states, only by a few hundredths of a second.

This information was not quite a personal conversation because it was in front of about 100 coaches in Jamaica - but I asked the question that lead to his answer - again as you can see on page 243. He told me after the session that it "was a good question". It really is what you learn after you know it all that counts. Enjoy.

[IAmTheWalrus]

Taking a step away from the pre-jump or not to pre-jump discussion, it seems to me like the real problem here is the run and plant. As DJ has not yet posted here, I'll be the one to say that an effective approach run, with no over-striding, leads to a good takeoff. While I do prefer free takeoffs, or even pre-jumps when I can get them, I would never advocate it at the expense of significant speed. I worked with a near-elite decathlete who would take off outside 13' on a 15' pole, which was great. He had a really explosive takeoff, and could easily handle that takeoff, however he would slow down excessively and always hit the takeoff with a 20 degree backwards lean. He was actually afraid of taking off inside, and in doing so he would actually end up over striding and taking off closer, and leaning back to keep his body away from the box. He didn't have confidence in his run and plant, and so he would get himself into a cycle of moving back and then striding more. Unfortunately the issue was never resolved. He did one pole run once as part of practice, said "This is the stupidest thing I've ever done" and then went back to vaulting.

The point of my long windedness is that regardless of whether a pre-jump is ideal or not, if you are getting there by compromising speed and plant mechanics, it's likely holding back your training. I would work on her run, use a mid mark and pay close attention to her last few steps. Some 20/20 drills might be good to. I think if you can get her to be more comfortable being closer to the box on her penultimate step and pre-penultimate step (you know what I mean) it may help her get to the point where her takeoff is spot on, or even outside but with better speed, posture, and confidence.

I know there are many opinions on takeoff position, and I'm not disputing anyone's right now, but I think most coaches would agree that if you took of in the correct spot but the run was poor (reaching, stuttering, slowing down, leaning back) , then you're takeoff isn't actually good, because it's not setting you up correctly for the rest of the jump. I would prefer someone with an excellent run, good posture, and an explosive takeoff who is inside over someone who is compromising run, posture, or speed to hit an outside takeoff. The first vaulter will have a more energetic takeoff and is in a better position (good approach run) to make the adjustments to get to a free takeoff.

[KirkB]

... it seems to me like the real problem here is the run and plant.

Yeh, "bigger problem", or "separate problem". This problem isn't one in a million, which may be why VP didn't emphasize it.

I worked with a near-elite decathlete who would take off outside 13' on a 15' pole, which was great. He had a really explosive takeoff, and could easily handle that takeoff, however he would slow down excessively and always hit the takeoff with a 20 degree backwards lean.

Sorry, it's impossible to have an explosive takeoff with a 20 degree backwards lean. He would be jumping in the wrong direction! You must have meant something different than what you wrote?

Maybe you mean that he would be leaning back 20 degrees as his takeoff foot touched down, then have to wait for his body to lean forwards before he could jump?

Kirk

[IAmTheWalrus]

I don't think you're comment is entirely true, none the less, he would hit the takeoff, (i.e. his takeoff foot would hit the ground) with the foot well in front of the body, and the hips in front of the shoulders. He was a good high jumper (consistently over 2m), and his body position at foot-strike was reminiscent of a high jump takeoff, albeit without any rotation.

Regardless, the point was that this was someone who get in the pit by jumping up very powerfully at takeoff, but the sacrifices he made in speed and body position more than off-set any gains he saw from a pre-jump.

[KirkB]

Yeh, I suppose high jumpers lean back when they plant their foot, but still manage to move forwards over the bar. I see what you mean now.

Kirk