pole breaks

[Bruce Caldwell]

May I answer your question with a few questions?

Has'nt the sport gotten safer with this rule in place?
And the contribution of the Longer pit rule too?
WE THINK IT HAS
Do you see that there have been less serious accidents or vertually none at all ?

Aren't more people in your Certification learning why they need to be on poles that are weighted to fit them?

PS at ESSX we are not in disaray about weight ratings, and we do see better vaulting as a result of proper fittings no matter the brand pole.
BRUCE

[~jj~]

Hi Bruce,
seriously....two years ago when I sat in on the national HS rules meeting several of the committe members were in favor of simply subtracting 10 pounds from the max weight value of all poles in existance! In other words, every one in HS would jump on a pole 10 pounds stiffer than they are curently. As a manufacturer how would you adjust to such a world? ~jan~

[Bruce Caldwell]

OH 2 years ago!YES I WAS GLAD THERE WAS A BETTER SOLUTION OFFERED
WELL I have to say I am glad we all lobbied to keep that from happening by providing a better solution to the problem.

RED LIGHT RUNNERS
We will always have cheaters, or those who feel it is ok to round a corner with out stopping for stop signs. Those who break the rules are going to get their athletes hurt..

NFHS
I think the NFHS realized they needed to leave it up to the experts, as they did not have the knowledge about the product to make that call.
I have had nothing but full cooperation from the NFHS on rules and changes to help make the sport safe. I have never seen or heard comments such as this from them.

LOOKING AT ALL SIDES OF THE HEXAGON
When rules and specifications are set in place we need to make sure that the people who are making rules and setting standards have researched the problem fully and have learned what can happen if they make a wrong move.
An item, such as longer back pits, was a good move and was research properly and the manufacturing industry pulled together to assist the committee to make the best specs.
As I have mentioned before and this will not be my podium, but the deceleration specs left in ASTM are in my opinion without merit. Nuff said on that topic.

THOSE WHO CANNOT SEE THE FOREST THROUGH THE TREES.
Other rules and specs on Flexes, helmets, crossbar rules, etc are currently being looked at and that is great as long as those rules do not hinder or single out one manufacturing process over another or hinder or cease the process of development of new things on the horizon that can be safer.

[~jj~]

If we have a rule regarding max-handholds, and max weights, then we should have a universal standard to judge them by. This of course reduces the manufactures and the schools liability. I have done a great deal of research on this topic over the past six years.
I think in the next five to seven years it can become a reality.
I am in no particular hurry, but I do think that it should be done.
If it is done, pole vaulting will be safer, and less expensive.

~jj~
ps. Are you, or are you not, coming to the ASTM's in Tampa Flordia on Nov 20, 2004?

[Bruce Caldwell]

I will not be attending the meeting as my Father is ill right now and has not much time to live.
I have not seen an agenda?
I will be glad to respond in a letter if I can see an agenda.
It is entirely too soon for the committee to vote on any new rules or specs without more research and understanding about flex numbers and how they relate to specific processes of pole manufacturing.

As I see it there is already a rule for max grip 3 inches from the top of the pole. And we have a max weight system that works well for those who follow the instructions for usage of the ESSX pole.

[jmayesvaultmom]

I can see it leading to annorexia! Think about how many girls will just either stop vaulting or quit eating! There are many girls who have trouble just jumping on poles AT their weight or above! It might not be as hard for hs guys. Many hs girls have a self-image problem about themselves as it is! You add 10 pounds to the poles that they have now and it could lead to discouraging beginning female vaulters.

[rainbowgirl28]

I can see it leading to annorexia! Think about how many girls will just either stop vaulting or quit eating! There are many girls who have trouble just jumping on poles AT their weight or above! It might not be as hard for hs guys. Many hs girls have a self-image problem about themselves as it is! You add 10 pounds to the poles that they have now and it could lead to discouraging beginning female vaulters.

I have a friend who coaches high schoolers. He was used to weighing his kids every now and then to make sure they were legal. His girls were struggling to get on their poles. A few stopped eating and other bad things like that.

His solution was to remark all of the poles by 10 pounds, and stop weighing the girls

My opinion is that you should not be weighing the girls much and making a big deal about weight. They already know how much they weigh. If they can't get on a pole at or above their weight go to a shorter pole or straight pole. Definitely should not be remarking poles!

In high school I jumped on an 11'6 120. I ordered a 12'120 and 130. They took awhile to get there, so I borrowed an 11'140. I actually jumped higher on that (9'9") than on any of the other poles during the high school season.

[rainbowgirl28]

Bruce, sorry to hear about your dad

[~jj~]

Yes vault mom I agree. Having to lose weight should not have to be an option. In addition, I don't like weigh-ins at meets. I don't like alterting the resistance poles offer by cutting them at the bottom. I don't like coaches having to fudge vaulters weights on score sheets. I don't like the prevailing attitude amoung many HS and college vaulters and coaches that says they must have a straight bottom arm, and bend the pole a lot to be a successful pole vaulter. Furthermore, I think it is absured to "stiffen" all poles 10 pounds as some people would have it.
Have I failed to mention that the elimination of all bending poles has also been discussed at some of these meetings - as recently as this year. To me this is also absurd!
Making matters worse, the vaulting pole industry is full of hype. The hype is of course designed by salesmen and marketing departments to help sell poles. However, in reality it has helped to confuse the end users.....if we have standardization in the vaulting pole industry all of that ends because every pole will be judged by a scientifically based system that will take into account all the variables I spoke of above and many more. It is a highly complex problem. But the soloution is near.
If ratified, it will specify how every pole must be flexed and weighted, based upon its length and intended end user, yet it will allow the manufactures plenty of space to build design features in to their products.
~jan~

[Bruce Caldwell]

........ Furthermore, I think it is absured to "stiffen" all poles 10 pounds as some people would have it.
Have I failed to mention that the elimination of all bending poles has also been discussed at some of these meetings - as recently as this year. To me this is also absurd!

There is currently no discussion of this type by the NFHS. They asked 5-6 years ago if these were options, and the industry responded with a solution that is working as long as the rules are followed by the coaches and the athletes.

[Bruce Caldwell]

Making matters worse, the vaulting pole industry is full of hype. The hype is of course designed by salesmen and marketing departments to help sell poles. However, in reality it has helped to confuse the end users.....if we have standardization in the vaulting pole industry all of that ends because every pole will be judged by a scientifically based system that will take into account all the variables I spoke of above and many more. It is a highly complex problem. But the soloution is near.
If ratified, it will specify how every pole must be flexed and weighted, based upon its length and intended end user, yet it will allow the manufactures plenty of space to build design features in to their products.
~jan~

[color=blue][b]Pole Flex numbers are a means for the manufacturer to maintain consistency and a record to determine glass to resin differences from one batch of glass to another with in their plant.

Flex numbers are not a means for selecting poles and is only useful to the end user when moving within the same brand and the same length.

The current flex system used by all the manufacturers cannot be the same due to the variables we have no control of.

All flex systems are very close with exception to one brand’s 12’4â€Â

[lonestar]

I can see it leading to annorexia! Think about how many girls will just either stop vaulting or quit eating! There are many girls who have trouble just jumping on poles AT their weight or above! It might not be as hard for hs guys. Many hs girls have a self-image problem about themselves as it is! You add 10 pounds to the poles that they have now and it could lead to discouraging beginning female vaulters.

Joni, you're absolutlely right about that! Unfortunately, I've witnessed it in my own club. A few years ago, I found out from a girl in my club that another girl had been weighed in before a meet, outweighed the pole by 3lbs, didn't have another pole, so proceeded to go to the bathroom and induce vomiting for about 10 minutes, then return to weigh-in. She didn't make weight the second time either, didn't have a pole to jump on, so went off by herself and cried her eyes out. After the meet, the girl turned anorexic, refusing to eat anything for days. I was not present at that meet, and didn't find out for several weeks later about all this, at which point I sat the girl and her parents down and had a talk about the dangers of eating disorders, self-esteem, and safe dieting. I also had to put a policy in my club prohibiting eating disorders. This girl was in 9th grade at the time, and would ultimately medal at the state meet.

Now was this weight rule really worth it to create situtions like the one above? I proposed a much more effective alternative years ago, only to be ignored. It was a safe landing rule, simply stating that if you land unsafely 3 times, you would be disqualified from competition. Obviously it was a lot more detailed than that and I won't go into it here, but you would accomplish the same goal of preventing kids from flying over the back of the pit, or coming down in the box, or going sideways. It would control the grips on its own behalf, and require proper pole selection. BUT NOOOOOO, it would be too hard to enforce they said! Try enforcing teenage girls' perceptions of body image sometime!

The current weight rule is a piece of s#!^

We don't need 500 rules about how poles are made, flexed, and labeled. We just need to keep people landing down the middle.