My Experience At ESSX

[Decamouse]

It has the best toughness (Kevlar) - but - that is not the property that drives pole design - Stiffness (Specific Modulus) Carbon is a much better choice - Kevlar also is not the best for compressive strength (kind of need that at least on one side of the pole) - When you look at strength and stiffness to weight ratio Aramid (Kevlar) fibers just do not fit as well as Carbon and certain type of fiberglass - if you are interested - e-mail me and I can e-mail some general articles and stuff on the materials - this is not to say as material and esigns evolve that this would not change -

[Bruce Caldwell]

Much of the equipment and method is very similar - just ask them NASCAR fans about Ford's and Chevy or Dodge

Just to set the record straight this is partly a correct statement and to some degrees is incorrect statement as well.

They use a different system than we have designed for our manufacturing process. The end result is of course similar. We feel that they have some advantages using their system and we ours.
Unfortunately, they do not have a clue about our operations and we are very familiar with theirs prior to 1993 and I am sure they have made updates and improvements as well as repairs to bring on a better part.
They do have a spiral wrapper that helps to speed up thier production process that is very nice and a lot of ovens to maintain the volume.

We build most of ours by hand custom made.
I guess what I am saying here is "There is not only one way to make a fiberglass vaulting pole.

I do agree with you on the Kevlar glass tough stuff no memory GRIN

[jhesch]

Jenny,
if I'm not mistaken there have been several attempts at incorporating other materials into vaulting poles. only one I can think of off the top of my mind is graphite. If I'm not mistaken, didn't some poles from one of your previous brands/companies have graphite, Bruce? somethin like its hard to manufacture it with fiberglass? any other attempts at incorporating weird materials or some kinda crazy high-tech space aeronautics materials? seems to be an interesting part of making poles, researching different materials and trying to create something new and better.

[achtungpv]

Jenny,
if I'm not mistaken there have been several attempts at incorporating other materials into vaulting poles. only one I can think of off the top of my mind is graphite. If I'm not mistaken, didn't some poles from one of your previous brands/companies have graphite, Bruce? somethin like its hard to manufacture it with fiberglass? any other attempts at incorporating weird materials or some kinda crazy high-tech space aeronautics materials? seems to be an interesting part of making poles, researching different materials and trying to create something new and better.

Nordic made a graphite pole in the 80s. I believe Tom Hintnaus was a spokesman for it and the sales pitch was that it was like taking off a runway 3 foot higher than the box. Of course, if that was true, we'd all be on graphite poles.

[Barto]

Jenny,
if I'm not mistaken there have been several attempts at incorporating other materials into vaulting poles. only one I can think of off the top of my mind is graphite. If I'm not mistaken, didn't some poles from one of your previous brands/companies have graphite, Bruce? somethin like its hard to manufacture it with fiberglass? any other attempts at incorporating weird materials or some kinda crazy high-tech space aeronautics materials? seems to be an interesting part of making poles, researching different materials and trying to create something new and better.

Nordic made a graphite pole in the 80s. I believe Tom Hintnaus was a spokesman for it and the sales pitch was that it was like taking off a runway 3 foot higher than the box. Of course, if that was true, we'd all be on graphite poles.

The word Tom used later to describe those poles......."brittle"

Barto

[potatohead]

Well Barto,
While you criticize bruces every move he's making a carbon pole that's gonna blow every one else's outta the water. Ty Harding was able to use one of the prototypes and loved it. Now I myself am in the waiting line for a chance to test out this new breed of poles. But I've seen the material and held it in my hands and there is an almost 100% difference in the quality from that of other carbons, I have no doubt that these will be a success. The only downfall to the entire thing is that a 15"6' pole will weigh only about 4 1/2 lbs. but hey i'm not complaining, being able to vault with a feather is a polevaulters exstacy.
Potato

[rainbowgirl28]

Well Barto,
While you criticize bruces every move he's making a carbon pole that's gonna blow every one else's outta the water. Ty Harding was able to use one of the prototypes and loved it. Now I myself am in the waiting line for a chance to test out this new breed of poles. But I've seen the material and held it in my hands and there is an almost 100% difference in the quality from that of other carbons, I have no doubt that these will be a success. The only downfall to the entire thing is that a 15"6' pole will weigh only about 4 1/2 lbs. but hey i'm not complaining, being able to vault with a feather is a polevaulters exstacy.
Potato

Who is Ty Harding?

[Barto]

Well Barto,
While you criticize bruces every move he's making a carbon pole that's gonna blow every one else's outta the water. Ty Harding was able to use one of the prototypes and loved it. Now I myself am in the waiting line for a chance to test out this new breed of poles. But I've seen the material and held it in my hands and there is an almost 100% difference in the quality from that of other carbons, I have no doubt that these will be a success. The only downfall to the entire thing is that a 15"6' pole will weigh only about 4 1/2 lbs. but hey i'm not complaining, being able to vault with a feather is a polevaulters exstacy.
Potato

Uh, you know this how? Because you went and held a sheet of carbon fiber that looked different from some other sheet? Man, everyother manufacturer should immediately fire their engineers and hire YOU to head up both their design and production deptments. Since by merely holding a sheet of material you are able to determine all of it's performance characteristics and evaluate them compared to some other sheet of material. Those guys are going to be really sad when they realize how much time they wasted in college studying all of those useless engineering courses.

Whatever-

Barto

[vaultmd]

Jenny,
if I'm not mistaken there have been several attempts at incorporating other materials into vaulting poles. only one I can think of off the top of my mind is graphite. If I'm not mistaken, didn't some poles from one of your previous brands/companies have graphite, Bruce? somethin like its hard to manufacture it with fiberglass? any other attempts at incorporating weird materials or some kinda crazy high-tech space aeronautics materials? seems to be an interesting part of making poles, researching different materials and trying to create something new and better.

Nordic made a graphite pole in the 80s. I believe Tom Hintnaus was a spokesman for it and the sales pitch was that it was like taking off a runway 3 foot higher than the box. Of course, if that was true, we'd all be on graphite poles.

I was at the Nordic (formerly Skypole) factory in Costa Mesa when Tom brought all his poles back and asked for (or picked up - it was a long time ago) fiberglass ones. I don't think he had had any problems (yet) but he saw what was going on and might have been spooked. I usually keep quiet about stuff like this but it was so long ago and the poles are so different now that I didn't think it would make a difference.

I was there picking up a pole, a trainer and a scrap crossbar. I still have all three. The pole (14'9") was probably my best pole until I got a new series of poles this summer. I think Ted made it. I don't know if it has graphite or not, but it's held up all these years. Last time I jumped 14'6" (age 38) was on that pole.

[Bruce Caldwell]

[color=blue][b]I believe potato head was referring to TYE HARVEY

Tye has been to our shop and is amazed at the lightness of the poles and the way they bend over compared to other brands.
Tye still uses Pacer as his competition poles due to the relationship he has with Pacer and the success he has had with his special set.

But to set the record straight, while he thinks we are on to something he still has a full set of Pacer competition poles with the Pacer label on them/

I was talking to Jeff Buckingham one of the test pilots for American made Skypole Carbons made by Skip John Merritt formerly from GILL.

He said that he had so many break, that he started getting a little jumpy about those darn carbon poles.
It seems that in the past the poles had gotten a bad rap due to the amount of Carbon used and the types of carbon used.

I have seen the old ones that are much lighter than the ones made today. We have all learned that you have to have proper mix of “Sâ€Â

[vaultguru6]

I think to date there has been only one World record set on a carbon, many American records so carbon is still in its infancy

Ya know, as much talk as there is about different poles and which is better and whatever, I completely believe that the brand of pole one is on has an absolutely minimal effect on performance. If someone is going to jump high, they're going to jump high regardless of what pole they are on. And while some may jump out and say "Spirits are the best b/c there are so many more people jumping high on those than other poles!" I would say thats b/c there are more people jumping on them. Some may say "Pacer Carbons are better b/c Hartwig is on them and he's the best vaulter in the world right now!" I say if Hartwig were on spirits he'd be jumping just as high. It's not the pole that makes Hartwig good, or that made Bubka good, its the athlete.

When i came to college i made the switch from Spirits to Carbon FX's and it has not affected me one bit, positively or negatively. It's still me, my body, my jump. Companies all claim to be making 'drastic new improvements' on poles that are going to make you jump so much higher (well, maybe not the companies claim, but people for some reason belive this) yet they seem to be forgeting the most basic concept of the vault: you can only get as much energy out of the pole as you initially put into it. Maybe poles are getting slightly lighter, but do you really believe that 8 oz less in your hand on the runway is going to make you jump that much higher? If you really do then consider passing on that next candy bar, there's a couple ounces right there.

What i'm saying is if you really think that a new technology in a pole or a change in brands (unless you're on poles designed for high schoolers or something), is going to make you jump higher, you're probably looking in the wrong place. Look into yourself, thats where the improvements are going to be made.

[Erica]

Very well said, vaultguru6! It seems like so many people try to make their bad technique the pole's fault and blame things on "how the pole rolls over" when really all they need to do is learn how to have a better takeoff and swing.