Trail Leg- Tuck or Petrov?

[AVC Coach]

tucking directly from take off is by far the most efficient way of storing energy into the pole. this puts all your weight together into one smaller area and drives longer and better into the bend. then basically frog leg off the top to get that extra umph!! to get big blow from the pole.

What are you talking about? That makes absolutely no sense! How far would you kick a football if you balled your kicking leg up before impact with the ball? Zero energy!

How high has this theory taken you so far?

[altius]

8.19vault
PV Newbie
Joined: 05 Feb 2008
Posts: 4
Location: VA
Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2008 2:47 am Post subject:
Quote "tucking directly from take off is by far the most efficient way of storing energy into the pole. this puts all your weight together into one smaller area and drives longer and better into the bend. then basically frog leg off the top to get that extra umph!! to get big blow from the pole."

I suggest you do a bit more study of the pole vault before you feel inclined to make more stupid statements like this - especially in section ostensibly designed for discussion of advanced technique.

[OUvaulterUSAF]

Oh BTW, back in 2000 or 1999 I snapped two perfectly good poles in a row by turning/tucking directly upside down from take off. So not only will the pole potentially stall, there is a chance of over bending it past 90 degrees.

[spike gibeault]

i have been coached to tuck my leg after i have swung more then 90 degrees (my back parallel to the ground) then to break my trail leg down and tuck into a tight ball as far back as possible and to kick my legs straight up the pole and snap my hips tight up against it. (ex: brad walker 6m, http://www.stabhoch.com/movies/20060719_Walker_600.mov)

I've been told by other coaches at meets that i should keep that leg straight throughout my jump to help me get on bigger poles, but i don't need to get on bigger poles, i need to get back further and quicker so heres how i took it

Breaking down the trail leg (not instantly!, but after most of the swing)
Pros:
getting back quicker and further
more explosive/aggressive off the top of the pole

cons:
need a better drive to get on larger poles because the leg does not put more energy into the pole

straight trail leg
pros:
don't need as good a drive to bend the pole as much with the power of the leg swinging (although a good drive is still very important)

cons:
need a lot more strength to swing quickly and completely upside down
if you don't have the strength (or you are just learning) then you need to give up a lot of your take off to swing faster(http://youtube.com/watch?v=gcy2gWH5LZI)
not as "explosive" off the top of the pole


i would just like to get your opinion as to why the petrov model is better then breaking down the trail leg because my training is based around breaking down the trail leg and anyone who could add to the pros or cons of eathier list or elaborate or correct anything i have said because this has been bugging me since i started worrying about technique thanks

[SlickVT]

Wait for it.

[spike gibeault]

Wait for it.

?

[altius]

Donwurryabouditman! You probly bin doin it wrong so long yu cant change it now man! Just do YUR thing - iss cool.

[vault3rb0y]

If you want a simple answer from a simple critic of the vault, here it is:

its a waste of energy. Any sacrifice you make of vertical energy for the sake of energy into the pole is only going to get leaked somewhere between the transfer into the pole and back to you on top of the pole. You want to preserve as much energy as you can for yourself, and breaking your trail leg may put some of the energy into the pole, but the energy is better off staying with you. The only ways to put energy into the pole without sacrificing your own energy and velocity, are from a proper take off and proper long swing. Dropping the drive knee puts your energy DOWN and not UP. Everything in the vault needs to go UP. Hence the bar being bubka 6.15 opposed to walkers 6.00.


any more complex answer from me would be quoting BTB. Maybe thats a good place to check it out.

[superpipe]

Breaking down the trail leg (not instantly!, but after most of the swing)
Pros:
getting back quicker and further
more explosive/aggressive off the top of the pole

You think you are more explosive, but you're not. By tucking at any point, you're absorbing energy that should have been put into the pole.

cons:
need a better drive to get on larger poles because the leg does not put more energy into the pole

A straight trail leg swing does put more energy into the pole

straight trail leg
pros:
don't need as good a drive to bend the pole as much with the power of the leg swinging (although a good drive is still very important)

The drive isn't about bending the pole, it's about penetration and moving the pole forward.

cons:
need a lot more strength to swing quickly and completely upside down
if you don't have the strength (or you are just learning) then you need to give up a lot of your take off to swing faster(http://youtube.com/watch?v=gcy2gWH5LZI)
not as "explosive" off the top of the pole

Your take-off is not as good as it should be. At the plant, your center of gravity should be directly under your top hand. By the end of the take-off ( just before the swing starts ), your center of gravity should be as forward as possible while still keeping an upright body position ( shoulder rotation ). With a straight trail leg, you should have a BIG reverse "C" position. Your body is now in a fully stretched position and wants to return to equilibrium. All you have to do now is help speed up that trail leg swing that's gonna happen anyway. With the effort you put into swinging your straight trail leg and the natural swing that will happen anyway, it should be almost effortless to swing to vertical with a straight trail leg. I'm not saying you don't need some strength, but the pole vault is more technique than strength.

[spike gibeault]

You think you are more explosive, but you're not. By tucking at any point, you're absorbing energy that should have been put into the pole.

wouldn't the point of bending the pole be to store your energy in it, then transfer it back into you so you go up?

Your take-off is not as good as it should be. At the plant, your center of gravity should be directly under your top hand. By the end of the take-off ( just before the swing starts ), your center of gravity should be as forward as possible while still keeping an upright body position ( shoulder rotation ). With a straight trail leg, you should have a BIG reverse "C" position. Your body is now in a fully stretched position and wants to return to equilibrium. All you have to do now is help speed up that trail leg swing that's gonna happen anyway. With the effort you put into swinging your straight trail leg and the natural swing that will happen anyway, it should be almost effortless to swing to vertical with a straight trail leg. I'm not saying you don't need some strength, but the pole vault is more technique than strength.

that video is not me

here is a video of me (i know i need a lot of work but every pole i jump on is at least 40lbs or more over my weight and driving is most of what i work on for now)http://youtube.com/watch?v=8eUQqfmJu0o

i am not trying to vault per petrov, i find my style more suiting to me and i like how it feels. i was just looking to see why people feel it is better. personally i feel bubka could have jumped 6.15 with almost any technique because he could "catch the wave"

[golfdane]

With the effort you put into swinging your straight trail leg and the natural swing that will happen anyway, it should be almost effortless to swing to vertical with a straight trail leg. I'm not saying you don't need some strength, but the pole vault is more technique than strength.

I'm always reminded of that when my pv mentor (57 years young, came 10th in Munich '72 and 5th in Montreal '76) goes easily above 3.50m from 6 steps with no prior warm-up (just to make a point).

[lonestar]

...driving is most of what i work on for now

Hopefully you're doing that in a car, because if you're practicing staying down on the bottom in your vault you'll never "catch the wave."

i am not trying to vault per petrov, i find my style more suiting to me and i like how it feels. i was just looking to see why people feel it is better. personally i feel bubka could have jumped 6.15 with almost any technique because he could "catch the wave"

Petrov doesn't have a "style." He has a technical model which individual style can overlay. What technical model do you follow that your "style" overlays?

Quote from BTBaIt, page 4: "Sergey indicated that he was completely mystified by the unwillingness of many coaches and athletes to adopt Petrov's ideas. He was adamant that it was his technique that was responsible for his success and not his physical parameters, excellent though those were. He believed that many of the athletes competing that day, along with many, many more in the USA, had physical abilities equal or superior to his own and he was certain that the reason these vaulters were not jumping higher was because of the limitations their technique imposed!"

There is no spoon.