The Swing

[ADTF Academy]

Just because the bottom arm is not straight doesn't mean it can't be used for the initial absorption.

During the plant both arms are planted as high as possible correct.

But according to most people here the plant and take off should be what FREE or in some a PREJUMP.

If this is the case than the high plant occurs in retrospect to the the bend of the pole because it occurs before the pole begins to bend. The fact you are planting with an upright body and tall top arm and here's a big point actually jumping off the ground the loading process takes care of itself and the pulling action allows, keeps and encourages the body to rotate around the top hand with the greatest of ease. Should occur immediately upon leaving the ground so the hips and tail leg foot does not fall behind. If that occurs you will be late to covering the pole.

If there is any pressure with the bottom arm to brace as you put it how can you plant the pole. Take your 15 foot pole and lock out both arms and keep the top arm bicep on the ear with your shoulders perfectly square. Unless your very short the pole tip will not be on the ground and how can you pole vault. This is even worst for females using 12' poles and trying to keep their bottom arm straight. This is dangerous not with a relaxed bottom arm. A relaxed bottom arm will allow get this the pole tip to be on the ground your top arm to be straight in in correct position and your shoulders to be square. This is a prime position to apply force at takeoff because your square and symmetric.

If the speed and TO angle was not appropriate for the pole you were on who was the idiot that put you on that pole. I promise you this at first you will need to drop down to a smaller and softer pole than once you figure out how to jump with a more relaxed plant (in terms of the bottom arm) you will move up to bigger and bigger sticks in no time. Which will mean higher heights because of the most important factor you will actually be able to swing upside down and potentially beat the pole to inversion.

[agapit]

One of my senior 15 foot vaulters and I sat down with video from his practices, my computer to compare his position with Yelena and Bubka and an open minds to help him better understand how to implement the ideals found in Agapit's Vault Manifesto. Amazingly, it took two video sessions for him to transition from a 15 foot vaulter to a 16 footer.

Way to go Jeff! Congrats with coaching the State Champion and State Record holder!

Cheers!

[agapit]

When I asked if the bottom arm pushed before the moment the pull was supposed to begin, I didn't mean a highly aggressive push in which one tries to bend the pole, I just mean loading the pole with one's impulse, or, rather, taking some of that impulse and deflecting it to the top hand as Petrov describes (albeit through translation) above. I just don't see how "planting firmly towards the bar" and "driving up as hard and as high as possible" can be passive actions in which the left hand applies no force, but merely hangs on for the ride until it begins pulling.

Let’s simplify this.

Imagine that you are vaulting on the bamboo pole. It would not occur to you to push the pole at the take-off, however the bamboo pole will bend significantly and even more so during the inversion.

So what is the difference with fiberglass pole?

Non really!

[agapit]

Just because the bottom arm is not straight doesn't mean it can't be used for the initial absorption.

During the plant both arms are planted as high as possible correct.

But according to most people here the plant and take off should be what FREE or in some a PREJUMP.

Well, actually we observe that the top arm is not completely straight at the take-off (end of jump off the ground) and straitens in the air. With a free take-off or even more so with a pre jump it does not have to be straight since the impact is not on the ground.

[ADTF Academy]

Just because the bottom arm is not straight doesn't mean it can't be used for the initial absorption.

During the plant both arms are planted as high as possible correct.

But according to most people here the plant and take off should be what FREE or in some a PREJUMP.

Well, actually we observe that the top arm is not completely straight at the take-off (end of jump off the ground) and straitens in the air. With a free take-off or even more so with a pre jump it does not have to be straight since the impact is not on the ground.

Observe with who or what you teach?

So you teach not to have the arm completely straight at take-off..... Or that it is ok if it is not completely straight.

I think this is a can of worms we don't want young vaulters thinking about or worrying about. If the plant is up would you agree that is better than the plant not being up.

[RPVA03]

Agapit, what would you suggest is a logical method for developing the pull with the left arm?

[volteur]

Observe with who or what you teach?

So you teach not to have the arm completely straight at take-off..... Or that it is ok if it is not completely straight.

I think this is a can of worms we don't want young vaulters thinking about or worrying about. If the plant is up would you agree that is better than the plant not being up.

If you jump onto a high bar do you first hit the bar with straight or slightly bent arms?

[ADTF Academy]

Observe with who or what you teach?

So you teach not to have the arm completely straight at take-off..... Or that it is ok if it is not completely straight.

I think this is a can of worms we don't want young vaulters thinking about or worrying about. If the plant is up would you agree that is better than the plant not being up.

If you jump onto a high bar do you first hit the bar with straight or slightly bent arms?

Depends are you jumping straight up or from a running start.


If you jump straight up with no momentum than usually bent.


If you jump from a running start and grab the high bar with bent arms and then swing good luck not getting ripped off the high bar when your arms straighten.

[vault3rb0y]

As long as your arms are as high as possible WHEN THE POLE MAKES CONTACT, that aspect of the plant was a success. That applies to bubka and high school vaulters. The only difference is, that means high schoolers must have their hands up earlier since the pole hits the back earlier.

But in the sense that long jumpers use their arms to create more vertical lift, i can see how a plant could benefit from the arms rising just as you leave the ground, before the poles hits the back. Is there any warrant to this, or is it insignificant/improbable?

[powerplant42]

ADTF Academy Posted: Sun Jun 01, 2008 7:37 pm Post subject:

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volteur wrote:
ADTF Academy wrote:


Observe with who or what you teach?

So you teach not to have the arm completely straight at take-off..... Or that it is ok if it is not completely straight.

I think this is a can of worms we don't want young vaulters thinking about or worrying about. If the plant is up would you agree that is better than the plant not being up.


If you jump onto a high bar do you first hit the bar with straight or slightly bent arms?



Depends are you jumping straight up or from a running start.


If you jump straight up with no momentum than usually bent.


If you jump from a running start and grab the high bar with bent arms and then swing good luck not getting ripped off the high bar when your arms straighten.

One could be raising their arms AS THEY JUMP TO THE BAR, just like what agapit is saying should happen in the vault.

[BethelPV]

I think what ADTF is trying to say and what I feel is absolutely necessary is that when the POLE HITS THE BACK OF THE BOX AND BEGINS TO BEND the arms should already be completely straight, because if they are bent, they will get hammered straight and backwards and its a good possibility you could get peeled off the pole. As I said the key is that yes the arms can be coming up as your prepare to jump, but the top arm needs to be straight and as high as possible when the pole touches the back of the box so you can get a proper drive and proper tension on the pole as you take off. This way your total body can absorb the impact of the plant, and not just your arms, causing you to be able swing with your whole body instead of just rowing with your arms to move your feet, which will cause your hips to sit and you will eventually get stuck...

[golfdane]

As long as your arms are as high as possible WHEN THE POLE MAKES CONTACT, that aspect of the plant was a success. That applies to bubka and high school vaulters. The only difference is, that means high schoolers must have their hands up earlier since the pole hits the back earlier.

But in the sense that long jumpers use their arms to create more vertical lift, i can see how a plant could benefit from the arms rising just as you leave the ground, before the poles hits the back. Is there any warrant to this, or is it insignificant/improbable?

A long jumper/high jumper uses (commonly) his arms to create lift, but the lift is created by braking the rising of the arms at a point where it doesn't benefit the pole vault. Usually, a high jumper brakes the arms at about chest height (or slightly above) while the take-off foot is still on the ground. This creates the maximum momentum.

The elevation of arms moves the CM up, but the true benefit of high arms at the point of impact, is the increased pole angle. The inertia of the arms exists but is negliable, because the arm action isn't fast enough to be of major importance.