Metaphysics – The Fifth Dimension of Pole Vaulting?

[volteur]

inspired to try again by Kirk

so time is relative - does anyone know this?

time is different for one person compared to another in the same situation

time is different for the same person doing the same thing at different points in time

time can speed up or slow down

and this can be applied to training.

there is of course a way of explaining this that is physics based but it is besides the point.

Slow time down as you train the vault and you have more time to notice how you vault and more time to work on changing things.

[powerplant42]

Kind of a random thought: If you were a coach and could run around the pit at the speed of light (first of all, why are you a coach?), you could see every bit of the vault in super, SUPER slow motion. Right?

[volteur]

nice work powerplant! You're onto the idea - slow your mind down and you see everything in slow motion - that's the coaches side of this equation anyway. Next trick is to get the athlete to see it as well.

The coaching eye - like a slow motion, freeze framing, perfect memory image, camera

[powerplant42]

I'm sorry, I have it backwards... The athlete would see the coach's watch slowing down. Otherwise, the twin paradox would not work.

[volteur]

no you had it right in the first place

[powerplant42]

The Lorentz transformations say differently, no? I did a bit of research... how will the travelling twin be older than his Earth bound sibling if the travelling twin sees the Earth twin move more slowly?

[volteur]

that stuff is so tricky isn't it, i can't fathom the depths of all that math. I gave up on mathematics once it went into calculus at the end of year 10, but i didn't give up on geometry which is all you need for sport and movement.

luckily this relativity thing doesn't have to be math related at all. As Einstein says in the first quote in this thread about dating the girl (time slows) and the hot cinders (time speeds up).

time is relative to gravity and that is the end of it. The stronger the gravity the faster the time and vice versa the weaker the gravity the slower the time. And gravity is dependent on mass so for the Earth it is say x and for the moon is it say .8x and for the sun it is say 2x. No idea of what they really are but the comparison illustrates the point. Go into space and time slows because there is less gravity.

the bit that connects that to how fast or slow one thinks is that we can change the gravity of our own thoughts. We can think heavy or we can think light. So the trick for the coach watching the athlete is to use thinking in a light way - in fact not to think at all is best as that is the lightest way we can use our minds. When there is a lack of thinking there is one of two things that occur - increased observational ability (the preferred) or increased vagueness (not preferred).

So the trick for the coach when watching the athlete is to not think at all and simply observe. After the athlete has completed the attempt then there is quite often a thought that interprets or analyses what it just observed. The trick is to separate the two - observe first and then think.

how is that as a way of looking into this that doesn't require all that trickery with the math of the Lorentz Transformation or the Twins Paradox or even of Eintein's Relativity.

[SlickVT]

I never trust physicists.

This is a group of people who say that if you walk into a wall over and over again for 1 trillion years, on average, one of those times the particles of the wall will randomly move and you will make it through the wall.

Also, they actually calculated that a monkey randomly hitting keys on a keyboard has a 1 in 10^183,800 chance of successfully typing Hamlet.

I'll stick to engineering and pole vaulting thank you!

Good discussion, though!

[Lax PV]

I never trust physicists.

This is a group of people who say that if you walk into a wall over and over again for 1 trillion years, on average, one of those times the particles of the wall will randomly move and you will make it through the wall.

Also, they actually calculated that a monkey randomly hitting keys on a keyboard has a 1 in 10^183,800 chance of successfully typing Hamlet.

I'll stick to engineering and pole vaulting thank you!

Good discussion, though!

Ironically--we physiscists say the same thing HA.

The effect of speed on time however, is negligable in any movement by a human. Moving at 45000m/s (approx about 100,000mph) will translate to a Lorentz factor of about 1/100,000,000... sadly, thats not goinig to dilate time much.

But as SlickVT said... interesting topic--however, the concept of quantum tunnelling is VERY (if you can stomach the math for it...)

[volteur]

Lax PV can you explain quantum tunnelling please, i just read wiki on it but wondered on your physicists take on the matter - perhaps we can go into the simultaneous dual existence of the wave view and the particle view and relate them back to pole vault analysis

however, for me, without too much investigation into the math of quantum mechanics, is that the field of quantum physics is where scientific thought, as a discipline, or even as a religion as many seem to treat it, connects to other fields of thought already in existence in the world.

These fields of thought include Buddhism, Christian Mysticism, the martial arts - most specifically Aikido and Jeet Kune Do, Yoga and of course the Petrovian model

as i understand it all of these disciplines including quantum pretty much discover that there is no actual reality beyond that which we perceive and define for ourselves. As a friend of mine likes to say Truth IS Perception. I would add that this means each of our own personal truth on how things work in the world is uniquely defined by our accumulated life experiences and the attitudes we place upon those experiences.

Lately videos like 'What the Bleep do we Know' and 'The Secret' are attempts to bring this idea into the general populace.

[Lax PV]

Lax PV can you explain quantum tunnelling please, i just read wiki on it but wondered on your physicists take on the matter - perhaps we can go into the simultaneous dual existence of the wave view and the particle view and relate them back to pole vault analysis

however, for me, without too much investigation into the math of quantum mechanics, is that the field of quantum physics is where scientific thought, as a discipline, or even as a religion as many seem to treat it, connects to other fields of thought already in existence in the world.

These fields of thought include Buddhism, Christian Mysticism, the martial arts - most specifically Aikido and Jeet Kune Do, Yoga and of course the Petrovian model

as i understand it all of these disciplines including quantum pretty much discover that there is no actual reality beyond that which we perceive and define for ourselves. As a friend of mine likes to say Truth IS Perception. I would add that this means each of our own personal truth on how things work in the world is uniquely defined by our accumulated life experiences and the attitudes we place upon those experiences.

Lately videos like 'What the Bleep do we Know' and 'The Secret' are attempts to bring this idea into the general populace.

In a quick nutshell it is similar to how Slick descirbed it--given enough tries, statistically, all the particles will eventually line up and you would be able to propogate right through whatever medium you would like (as our current understanding is that atoms are IMENSELY hollow). However, because the rate at which things move at on that scale, the statistics are very low... and I mean REALLY low...

Quantum mechanics is a very probablistic science. Due to the uncertainty principle, we definitively know the momentum of a particle, or its position, but not both at the same time. Thus, we get probabilities and expectitation values based on these probabilities which stem from the assumption that nature is going to pick the senerio with the highest probability. The highest probability in this case is that the particle will go nowhere...but give it enough time, and enough attempts, eventually it is bound to happen.

I disagree in saying that quantum mechanics is metaphysics. It is clearly science that has been tested in the labs time and time again, and the results are spot on. To paraphrase a great professor and scientist Dr. Richard Feynman, "No one really understands quantum mechanics. And if you think you do, you probably don't know enough about it yet." ...myself included.

[Tim McMichael]

I reccomend the book "Zen in the Art of Archery" by Eugen Herrigel if you want something really metaphysical as it relates to learning a technical skill. Facinating stuff. Here is an exerpt:

". . . to use some expressions which are nearest to the heart of the masters, it is necessary for the archer to become, in spite of himself, an unmoved center. Then comes the supreme and ultimate miracle: art becomes 'artless,' shooting becomes not-shooting, a shooting without a bow and arrow; the teacher becomes pupil again, the Master a beginner, the end a beginning, and the beginning perfection."

Cool beans in my book.