My HS Sr. Year Training Blog (by Joe Six-Pack)

[VTechVaulter]

do some sprinting in there somewhere. the only running you have is one light day!?!?

[joebro391]

do some sprinting in there somewhere. the only running you have is one light day!?!?

just for this month, i'm kinda refraining from many 100's and what not. BUT, during my warm-up's, and especially on my plyo-days, i do 4-6 heavy sprints, up and down the runway. starting in december, as with my high school track-season beginning, my sprinting will increase drastically, so don't worry, i got you covered.

ALSO, i took you advice on running style (not so much style as just "running with fast cadence and shorter strides") but i will touch upon that in my next "official" post. -Joe

[joebro391]

hey guys, what's up?? just sharing my experiences from my first indoor-vaulting day. Great practice really, worked on short runs on short/stiff poles with amazing results.

So for this month, i'm going to Vertical Assault, in Bath, PA with coach, Mike Lawyrk. So there workout is slightly different than the one i've been training, but it really worked for me; let me explain. So I walked in, did running agilities and stretches (nothing new) then did about 20 "roll-overs" (vaulting on the ground on a stiff pole with very short grip, as seen in B2B2) and then we went to the pits. Mike likes to really focus on basics, which, at this stage of the game, I really, really like. We went to a 1-left run (just "riding through", to the pit), same with the 2's. then i went to a 3 (on a 13' 165 btw) getting a 'slight' bend, now swinging up, and i was able to get my feet over the 14' bungee (but who cares haha). so he told me that i was keeping my elbow 'outside' of the pole, when it came time to invert, and this was greatly holding back my inversion (because i was still straight-poling, for the most part). ***but it's never really been pointed out to me, ever, so i listened; and realised that it was much easier to keep dropping the shoulders back, with that elbow on the same side of the pole, as my body (DURING THE PULL-PUSH PHASE). So I just watched Bubka's 1997 6.01 clearence, and sure enough, he tucked his elbow in, once his body began to straiten up, once inverted. It's not so much a problem of mine with full vaulting, but i've always done it, when straight-poling so i'm just saying haha

freeze this video at 22 seconds in, and you'll see what i'm talking about: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HAuhYLN51OM

So then i went to 4 lefts, and was gripping around 12' on the 13' 165. I was getting a small, but high bend on it and was inverting niceley and getting over the 14' bungee pretty good (not too cleanly, but not just "hooking" it with my feet haha). MIke THEN pointed out, that i had a habbit of "leaning back" at take-off, which is very clearly seen, if you look at some of my older, bigger jumps. I felt i had this problem, but it wasn't too bad from 3's so it was never really addressed. Mike felt that there was a few factors at work here, primarilly, the long last stride i take. So he told me to really turn my legs over. In addition, he told me to really PUSH with my arms, and try and keep my drive-knee up, trail-leg back and my chest up, shooting for that real "pre-stretch" in my shoulders/chest. for the most part, I was able to do it without much bodily-resistance (aside from that long, last stride ), but I started blowing through the pole. So mike moved me back to a 5-left run and i hopped on a 13' 170 and kept the grip the same. So on the jumps where i was swinging long (and doing everything before that right) i was getting a good, high bend and blowing through the pole. So i moved to a 13'7 160 and stayed on that grip, gradually moving it up, a few inches at a time (to a maximum of around 12'9) and i continued to get a pretty good, high bend.

So i after practice, i did some of those rope-drills that i do in my "gym-drills" video (but added a pull once i inverted), just as some post-workout conditioning. I told mike, that i want to get on a 15' pole soon, and he told me what he did with his kid, last year, tony shirk. He told me that he just put a 15' pole in tony's hands (never being on one before) and started him at a 1-left approach (obviously straight-poling) and kept moving the run back and the grip up, until it started to bend, and tony could swing up. he said it took tony about 2 weeks/4-5 practices. so i told him that i'd be willing to start next week, but i'm still debating that (i'm leaning towards going for it though).

THINGS TO WORK ON: TURNING LEGS OVER FASTER!!! grrr, that frustrates me more than anything, not gonna lie. NOW, VTV gave me a great tip, not too long ago. He said:

if you turn the steps over. count the rhythem out loud. your steps get longer as you approach the box. heres a challenge. keep moving in 3 inches a time, and turning over faster. i bet you will find you can move in and your step will actually come out. one day in practice i did this and moved in 18 inches and kept the same take off step, mid only came in about 7 or 8 inches. and i ended up going up poles because i was taller and faster at the end.

I really liked this advice. So all the sprint-training that i've been doing, mostly during warm-ups and on track-days, i've been really focused on short stride/fast cadence. and when i do runs or pole-runs, i'm fine. but when i'm vaulting, my LAST stride is always long Mike was telling me that my feet were much better than in the past, but it's all kinda being undone because of that LAST stride. so it's probably just a confidence thing at this point. what i might just try is moving my step in, a bit more and just hope for the best. what do you guys feel about this??

So anyway, that's my report guys. i got on the stiffest pole i've ever been on from a 3, 4 and 5-left approach, WITHOUT SPIKES ON, and i feel great. unfortunately, i don't have any video, but i'll get some next week. I'd love to go twice a week, but i can't afford it, and can't make the trip down every few days. so sadly, i must stay at my thursday-vaulting schedule.

ON ANOTHER NOTE, tomorrow's my lifting day, and i have no access to weights (because school is closed tomorrow) and coincidentially, my gym-boss called me in to coach the cheerleaders tomorrow... ...so i accepted and will make tomorrow a gymnastics day. So that's my report. I'll get footage of tomorrow, for my lack of footage of today. everyone take care and i'll talk to you all soon. -6P

[KirkB]

Nice practice!

I hope you can show us some vids of your gym workout tomorrow!

Kirk

[joebro391]

Nothing major in this post, just going through the new Gymnastics workout, layed out in my November Workout, posted on the last page. I posted the video in it's own thread so comment wherever.

Link to PVP thread: viewtopic.php?f=39&t=16315

Link to Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ea4QReXthg

Drills in the Video:
-Bubka's on Rings
-Extensions on Rope
-Rope Swing
-Hip Circle
-Hip Circle to Handstand
-Extensions on floor
-Bubka's on High-Bar

Not really much else to say; I went through everything in the Main Video Thread, so just read it there. so yea, let me know what you think, whether you think i'm using improper technique in any of the drills or whatever. . thanks, and take care guys. -6P

[KirkB]

6P, I'm already noticing some improvement in your gym drills. Nice!

-Bubka's on Rings

You're starting to feel the rhythm of these (like Amy). Remember that the IMPORTANT part of this drill isn't the upswing or the extension. It's the DOWNSWING! That's where you need to quicken it up. Do that, and you can just coast thru the upswing.

On your backswing, you're letting your trail leg knee bend too much. That will never happen in a real vault, so don't do it here. Instead, keep it straight, and hyperextend your entire trail leg as much as you can. Remember - I'm an EXPERT in doing this drill (rings and highbar), so trust me on how to do it.

-Extensions on Rope

These are nice, but I think rope climb is better. In your rope climb, you should essentially be extending a bit on every step, albeit not a full extension (until your extend to the ceiling).

In this drill, your biceps get too much of an isometric workout. I recommend that you work them thru a range of motion by upside-down rope climbs.

-Rope Swing

I see that you're positioning the rope away from you, as I suggested. Good! If you can even get a bit more angle, that would be even better. But I can already see how you're doing a nice swing once you hit the rope.

It still looks like you're hunching your shoulders. This is a bad habit that could transfer to your pole drills. Push/squeeze. If you feel that you don't have the strength to do the rope swing with a fully extended top arm, then work up to it slowly, with perhaps less steps, or perhaps other drills that give you absolute confidence that you can push/squeeze with a fully extended top arm without letting go.

I also recommend doing this (almost) exact same drill on the highbar.

-Hip Circle

Yeh, not bad for a warmup.

-Hip Circle to Handstand

Nice try. I'd rather see you shoot OVER the bar and land on your feet, rather than stall out and fall. Once you get that going smoothly, then the idea is to simply go more and more straight up. Sooner or later, you'll end up in a handstand. But don't expect this overnight. It will take time. You're on the right track, just follow these additional hints.

To say this another way, start with your warmup hip-circle. Then shoot OUT, OVER the bar, landing several feet back from where you were first standing. Then gradually go for more height and less distance.

But if you want to make a bit of a competition out of it, mark where you land, and each time, try to land further away from the bar. I never did these, as female gymnastics didn't exist as a university sport in my day - so no uneven bars. But the bar's at a good height to try this. It should be fun!

-Extensions on floor

Quite good. With your tumbling background, this is to be expected. Now let's turn this into more of a drill that's applicable to the PV. Instead of muscling up, try to SHOOT up! How do you do that? Well, I could tell you, but this is where some self-discovery comes in!

-Bubka's on High-Bar

I really don't like these. I like your Bubka's on the Rings much better. And I see you're still reversing your grip. I'd drop this drill from your repertoire if I were you.

I'm really, really disappointed that you didn't do any Hinge/Whip drills. Those are the most important drills of all! Remember that the vault is built part by part, starting with the pole carry and run. There's no sense working on your Bubkas (extension) if your swing sucks. Get you swing moving faster, and you'll find that you extend much better - without hardly trying! I'm referring to both on the highbar and on the pole. Trust me on this.

In making these comments, I didn't refer to your related post in the Video Review forum. I might do that later, but for now, I just wanted to give you my honest opinion, without any bias re what you thought of each drill. If you like, please ask clarifying questions to talk thru each of these drills.

Kirk

[joebro391]

6P, I'm already noticing some improvement in your gym drills. Nice!

hey kirk, glad to hear you like what you're seeing. I do have like 1 or 2 questions just to clarifiy some things!

You're starting to feel the rhythm of these (like Amy). Remember that the IMPORTANT part of this drill isn't the upswing or the extension. It's the DOWNSWING! That's where you need to quicken it up. Do that, and you can just coast thru the upswing.

On your backswing, you're letting your trail leg knee bend too much. That will never happen in a real vault, so don't do it here. Instead, keep it straight, and hyperextend your entire trail leg as much as you can. Remember - I'm an EXPERT in doing this drill (rings and highbar), so trust me on how to do it.

KIRK!!! after i posted this originally, i went back on youtube and watched amy do this drill and noticed something, i consider HUGE!! now, you just stated that i need to focus more on the 'up-swing', KOOL, i will do that, next time I'm in the gym, HOWEVER, i think i just saw something else. It's on the upswing, but i would like you to take it into consideration. NOW, look at my feet, once i start to invert, BEFORE I begin to extend. NOW, look at amy, in the same spot. do you notice how she's more in a 'V'-ish position, and i'm in more on an 'L'-ish position?? now, i know we hate the 'V' position, but considering her hip-placement, isn't that a good thing??

My coach always tells me that i shoot too "strait-up" and my that my feet don't 'pass parallel' which causes me to shoot out sometimes (in addition to my hip problem). please compare that between me and amy and let me know what you think. I feel the reason why i don't "come back" (bring my feet all the way to my hands) is just out of fear because i feel i might fly too far backwards, and because i don't know how it'll feels. let me know what your take on this is. I just noticed it now, and think it's a major thing.

It still looks like you're hunching your shoulders. This is a bad habit that could transfer to your pole drills. Push/squeeze.

okay, at which point am i hunched over?? that's what i'm confused about. do you mean, once i'm inverted???

If you feel that you don't have the strength to do the rope swing with a fully extended top arm, then work up to it slowly, with perhaps less steps, or perhaps other drills that give you absolute confidence that you can push/squeeze with a fully extended top arm without letting go.

and are you referring to the slight flexing in my arm, when i first grab on to the rope?? i think that that's a simple thing and i just have to think about really 'reaching'. but if you're refering to something different, let me know

I'm really, really disappointed that you didn't do any Hinge/Whip drills. Those are the most important drills of all! Remember that the vault is built part by part...Trust me on this...

Kirk, i trust you more than you know haha. Um, i went back and read your post about your hinge/whip drill, and then when i was in the gym, i tried it, and something just didn't fit. I think it was the 'curling into a ball' part. idk, do you think you could give me a deeper explanation of the drill?? I really want to try them, especially considering how much you back them, but i want to make sure that i'm doing them correctly -6P

[powerplant42]

now, you just stated that i need to focus more on the 'up-swing'

Remember that the IMPORTANT part of this drill isn't the upswing or the extension. It's the DOWNSWING!

KB, can you explain why you dislike Bubkas so much? I'm curious... not defending them or anything (yet), I'm just interested.

[KirkB]

6P, I don't know if this is a typo, or if you truly misunderstand what I'm saying ...

Remember that the IMPORTANT part of this drill isn't the upswing or the extension. It's the DOWNSWING!

... now, you just stated that i need to focus more on the 'up-swing'

Either way, it's so vital that I'm going to break it down for you. It looks like I need to clarify BACKswing, DOWNswing, and UPswing. That's the order!

In your quote above, you misquoted me, saying that the 'up-swing' was the one to focus on. No! It's the DOWNswing!

The backswing is just a way of getting each repetition of the drill into the starting position (the "C" or "Split" position). The downswing is next, and it's the most important part.

After BACKswing, DOWNswing is next (and most important to focus on). Then comes the Whip. That's when you pass vertical on the highbar, where you should physically feel the force of the downswing - if you do it right. Next is the UPswing. That's the part of the swing once you pass vertical. In other words, the downswing is swinging down to vertical, the Whip is at the bottom of the swing, and the upswing is the follow-thru past vertical.

On the pole, this roughly follows the swing to the chord (downswing), then the Whip (as you pass the chord), then swing past the chord to (and thru) the extension. The Whip isn't EXACTLY when you pass the chord, but it's close enough - for me to say that here (for Intermediate technique).

Got it now?

So with that in mind, you should be able to deduce that there's no sense in working on the upswing until you have the downswing down pat. Here's why ...

Why work on the upswing first, without a strong, quick, powerful, forceful downswing? The result will be a muscle-up, because you're not swinging fast enough thru the Whip. In this TECHNIQUE drill, you don't need to train you body to muscle-up, you need to train it to SWING up! And you swing UP by first swinging DOWN strongly, quickly, powerfully, and forcefully.

I sure hope this makes sense now, because I don't know how to make it any clearer.

Kirk

[KirkB]

KB, can you explain why you dislike Bubkas so much?

I'll try to tie in my answer to this to 6P's order of gym drill importance, compared to mine ...

IMPORTANCE TO 6P (as per simulating the actual vault):
Bubka's on rings
Bubka's on High Bar
Extensions on Rope
Rope Swing-drill
Extensions on Floor
Hip Circle Push to handstand

IMPORTANCE TO KB (as per simulating the actual vault):
Hinge/Whip drill on highbar
Hip Circle to Handstand (not PUSH to Handstand
Bubka's on rings (emphasizing the DOWNswing)
Extensions on Floor
Rope Climb
Rope Swing-drill
Extensions on Rope
Bubka's on High Bar (I didn't do these)

PP, if you recall, we both told 6P that he needs to focus his priorities on the drills that give him the best cost-benefit. By "cost", I mean the cost of the time that the drill takes, as well as the cost of "energy loss" of doing the drill. You and he have a good rally going on the fact that you should focus on the "most important" or "most beneficial" drills first, as that's when your body's the sharpest.

Once you start getting fatigued, you gym workout starts to transform into a STRENGTH or an ENDURANCE workout. There's nothing wrong with those 2 aspects of gymnastic training, it's just that you don't want to do your TECHNIQUE training last, because you won't be incrementally improving your technique if you're too tired. I think we all agree on this point, don't we?

So the hinge/whip drill on the highbar, and the hip-circle-to-handstand were the most important to me. They ABSOLUTELY simulated the vault the best. You've heard me say this in many different ways before, on many different threads.

Next, I did the hinge/whip drill on the rings. That's NOT the same drill as the "Bubkas on rings", but the DOWNswing part of it certainly is (or should be). Sergey Bubka was only 6 years old when I started doing these drills, so of course we didn't call them "Bubkas". But more importantly, we stressed the DOWNswing part of the drill, rather than the UPswing. I'm hoping that my previous post made the reasons for this crystal clear.

Next, I like "extensions on the floor". Actually, in the gym, I wouldn't "waste" my time on them, as the scarce resource was the rings and highbar, so why do floor-ex? I did the "extensions on the floor" at home, or on the grass (Astroturf, actually) during the warmup of my pole vault training sessions. Also to stay warm and psyched (part of visualization) between vaults during competitions.

Rope-climb is definitely a strength drill. It's not a technique drill. But it's one way to develop core strength (and some bicep and lat strength) in the gym, without using weights.

I did "quite a bit" of rope-swing drill when I was younger, but gradually phased it out as I phased the hinge/whip and hip-circle-to-handstand drills in. Roughly speaking, I did more rope drills in HS and more highbar/rings in college, simply because of equipment availability and lack of knowledge of the proper highbar/ring drills until I got to UW.

Extensions-on-rope are next. They're mostly for strength - not technique. The drill excercises some "good" muscles, but not exact enough to call this a "technique" drill.

Finally come Bubkas-on-the-highbar. Which was your question ...

I definitely don't like the reverse grip. It's bad! It works the wrong muscles! But maybe the worst part of this drill is not the drill itself, but the fact that there's so many other BETTER drills to choose from (drills that emphasize the DOWNswing rather than the UPswing), before you pick from the bottom of the barrel - so to speak.

I just got a call requiring my attention (to go somewhere for the day), so I'll have to follow up on this later. But I wanted to post this first, to let you both (6P, PP) chew on.

Go ahead and ask any followups, and I'll do my best to answer later.

Kirk

[powerplant42]

Maybe you're right about order... They are definitely a strength drill, not really for technique. (Just so that we're crystal clear, I'm not exactly referring to what 6P is doing as 'Bubkas'... those are 'Bubkas with a swing'. The version that I'm constantly talking/asking about is the version demonstrated in the 'Media' section of PVP.) They could go in a high bar strength work out all by itself, apart from gymnastics. Maybe that should be done twice a month for you. (This of course goes back to the debate about vaulters and strength training... twice a month would probably be just about right for you, 6P.)

Oh, and KB, just so you know: I am waiting for the cement around my high bar's posts to dry. I'll send you a picture by e-mail if you'd like!

[joebro391]

KIRK!, damn, that was a typo )= sorry if i wasted typing-time haha. but perhaps it clarified it for other people! haha. Alright, i got your point, so i'll focus more on downswing than upswing for a while

Also, could you answer those other questions when you get back?? haha, take your time, i'm in no rush, just reminding you