The One-Arm Drill

[Thats.What.She.Said]

Not much... But I think I got that you were pulling with your bottom arm, which is something you won't fix without the bottom hand being on the pole!

I'm thinking she's a left-hander

good observation, im just one of them crazy lefties

[altius]

Re: The One-Arm Drill
by rainbowgirl28 on Mon Feb 02, 2009 2:48 pm

"altius wrote:
and they are counter productive with young athletes - who immediately swing past the pole when they leave the ground -when they should be trying to stay behind it.

Not if they do it right. If anything I think young vaulters are more likely to learn how to stay behind the pole on a one-hander because they won't be trying to block out with their bottom arm.

One-handers can be beneficial if taught correctly. If an athlete has a bad problem with pulling with the top arm, swinging on a one-hander can be a good drill for them.

It's like most other drills... it's a matter of how it's taught. Most coaches aren't teaching the drills correctly, so it's now an issue of what they are doing, but how they are doing it."

I am well aware that everyone is entitled to express their opinion on PVP, no matter their age, qualifications or experience - However I would point out that in most aspects of life, successful experience is both highly valued and respected. So I base my opinions about this drill on a pretty deep analysis of how best to teach this event, along with careful observation of how this particular drill is used around the USA. Note that I have been prepared to put up examples of my own young athletes on a cd for all to critique - so I suggest that anyone who thinks this drill is valuable should put up some film of their athletes doing it - along with more film of them actually vaulting in competition. Then we can assess the possible transfer value of the one arm drill.

I must say Becca that I find it disappointing that you would imply that, after more than fifty years of teaching the vault all over the world, I would not be able to 'teach it right'. I can teach most elements of the vault as well or better than the majority of the coaches on the planet - I just do not believe that this is a good drill - readers can take that or leave it -but please dont suggest that I could not teach it - or any other aspect of the vault - correctly, if I decided that it was of any value.

However I again refer readers to Petrov's comment - which clearly shows that he sees no value in this drill.

[rainbowgirl28]

I must say Becca that I find it disappointing that you would imply that, after more than fifty years of teaching the vault all over the world, I would not be able to 'teach it right'. I can teach most elements of the vault as well or better than the majority of the coaches on the planet - I just do not believe that this is a good drill - readers can take that or leave it -but please dont suggest that I could not teach it - or any other aspect of the vault - correctly, if I decided that it was of any value.

However I again refer readers to Petrov's comment - which clearly shows that he sees no value in this drill.

I am sure that if you chose to use this drill, you could teach it correctly. You choose not to use it. When you see an athlete doing it, you are biased against it, so rather than teach them how to do it correctly, you steer them in a different direction. And that is totally fine, I have no problem with coaches doing that.

What I am saying is you are biased against the drill, and not likely to try and look for any merits or usefulness to it because Petrov thinks it's stupid. It seems rather close-minded to completely blow it off just because Petrov chooses not to use it.

Of all of the bad coaching ideas that go on in the US, this is not the one to attack. This drill is just an expression of someone's model, the same drill can be expressed in a good way or bad way, it's not an inherently bad drill.

I believe that some successful US coaches, such as Pat Licari (who is a big fan of one-handers as a warm up drill and for beginners), who follow the same fundamental principles as Petrov, are using this drill with success. Many coaches are teaching bad habits with it... same as any drill.

I think agapit's pole climbing drill sounds stupid, but I accept that some coaches find merit in it and that it could be useful for teaching, when taught correctly. You don't climb up the pole when you vault, so why do it in a drill? Does Petrov use this drill?

No drill defines a technical model. I think that while the biomechanical principles of the so-called Petrov model are sound, there are a variety of ways to teach them to an athlete.

[powerplant42]

The pole-climbing drill is auto-corrective... It allows the athlete to intuitively coach themselves based on what something felt like. If they don't climb well on the pole, they are not running/planting/taking off/staying behind the pole well enough, or they are not gripping appropriately.

Have you tried the pole-climbing drill?

[rainbowgirl28]

The pole-climbing drill is auto-corrective... It allows the athlete to intuitively coach themselves based on what something felt like. If they don't climb well on the pole, they are not running/planting/taking off/staying behind the pole well enough, or they are not gripping appropriately.

Have you tried the pole-climbing drill?

Your logic is flawed. You say you don't like one-handers because you use both hands when vaulting. Yet you like the pole-climbing drill, even though pulling with the arms on the pole is the exact opposite of what you want to do when vaulting.

Both drills have their merits, I am trying to open your mind to the fact that drills can have merit even if they don't perfectly simulate every single aspect of the vault.

[powerplant42]

It simulates the arm work that occurs... Not rowing, not 'sweeping', but staying rigid ('strong') at pole-strike and aiding the inversion (and arguably the acceleration of the swing).

[Lax PV]

I do this drill as part of my warm up every time i jump.

Reason 1. Its a very dynamic warm up for my top shoulder.
Reason 2. I can work on jumping before the tip hits
Reason 3. I can really focus on being forward, and driving the chest through take off
Reason 4. Focus on proper motion of top hand at take off, since i tend to have a problem with curling up behind me.

Now granted some of these things can be accomplished other ways. But i think this drill has some merit.

without reading all 3 pages yet, well said.

[Andy_C]

I think the most effective drills are the ones that replicate the real action to the highest degree possible. Practicing a complex activity with a missing "element" may attune your body into doing things improperly if you're not careful. This is especially true when so many aspects of the vault are interrelated and depend on each other. You need your second arm! While the degree success (or failure) with this drill may depend on the individual, for me nobody (that I know of) vaults with one arm so nobody should be practicing this way. You shouldn't be practicing what you're not doing!

I understand the purpose of this drill is to focus on elements of the top arm. But when you add in the jump and all, it becomes more than an "elemental drill". There are now other aspects of the jump you also need to concern yourself with. I must say though, I personally haven't run across this drill so it's quite new to me. It is encouraging to see that people are trying new things but sometimes everybody can get a little too creative and it all becomes counterproductive. Sometimes it is best to stick to what has been proven to work.

[altius]

Vtech old son - Could the emphasis on the one arm drill in your training be the reason that your arm bottom arm was incorrectly positioned when you jumped in Reno???????

[ACvault]

Although I think it is evident Petrov is the best coach out there right now, I believe some people in this thread are taking too much stock in his opinions.

If Petrov hypothetically said that jagodins were worthless because you never finish a vault like that in competition, would you take his word for it and stop doing/coaching them? Probably not. Why? First because through experience we know they are beneficial. More importantly, they work on other elements of the vault (run & plant). Just like VTechvaulter pointed out the one arm drill does the same thing, it helps athletes work on certain parts of the vault! Also as Becca mentioned, Pat Licari uses them and I would say he has had some pretty good vaulters.

[vcpvcoach]

I don't coach the one drill but I have added Dave Butler's sand pit drill as seen in the USATF pole vault development section of this board. As a result, ALL of my vaulters, even the new ones, are keeping their hips behind the pole. Mr. Butler's drill has made them know when they are pulling down at takeoff with their top hand something all of my vaulters were doing way to often.

I highly recommend view his clip.

[altius]

Its early morning here and I am just getting over a viral infection so you may find this a bit snappy - I wont apologise, for I know that as you are all experts, you will appreciate that this is just friendly banter.

Folk could not have understood my last post because it was a direct reference to a problem with Vtechs technique that I discussed with him in Reno - he was positioning his left hand incorrectly so that it did not allow him to drive the chest through his shoulders and finish the take off drive. I simply suggested above that this had occurred because he was not learning to use the left arm properly - perhaps because of an overemphasis on one arm drills.

"I highly recommend view his clip". And who does Dave base all of his material and ideas on?? Vitali Petrov. Suggest you take a look at the clip of Petrov presenting 'the plant' in Reno or take a look at the BTB dvd and see my kids staying behind the pole after finishing the take off- and then using that position to initiate the second phase. Even better let us see some images of your kids.

Apparently it is not valid to use Petrovs ideas as a model but it is ok to use Pat Licari's - is that what folk are telling me?

Also I like Beccas idea of categories for folk posting on this board -we may then get some idea of the experience and qualifications of all involved. Wonder if they will have a special notation done in gold for those of us with over fifty years of teaching and coaching the vault?