Help with Jack

A forum for coaches to discuss coaching technique and advice with each other. Only registered coaches can post in this forum.

Moderator: AVC Coach

User avatar
Tim McMichael
PV Master
Posts: 714
Joined: Mon Apr 03, 2006 3:36 pm
Expertise: Current college and private coach. Former elite vaulter.

Help with Jack

Unread postby Tim McMichael » Thu Jul 31, 2008 2:09 pm

I want a few suggestions as to what to do with Jack Whitt next. He has gone from a P.R. of 11'6" to 16'9" in 18 months. He has gone from a 14' 150 to a 16' 5" 200 in the same amount of time. Most of his improvement in pole sizes came in a five week period when he went from a 15' 180 to a 16' 9" 195. The change in the carry weight of the poles alone is enough to make me wonder how this happened.

Teaching the timing, position, and conceptual framework to try to get his jump to match his poles has been really tough, and we are miles away from it even now. I worked exclusively on his pole carry and plant and put his standards much further back than he was comfortable with for the entire season. This at least ensured that things were set up for the improvements to come, and it made sure that he never put a 15' 160 plant on a 16' 5" 200 pole. Some coaches have suggested that he ought to be jumping much higher, which is true, but I could not sacrifice the urgent need to solidify his run and takeoff to go after high bars. He is too tall and lanky to put an effective jump together through the middle of the jump with the poles he is on, which is why it has been all over the place all season. We have gotten better but there is still a long way to go.

He is 6' 4" and 175 pounds and has not seen the inside of a weight room. The only thing he did at practice was vault, which was just fine with me. He needed the reps, and the last thing I wanted was for him to need even bigger poles. This is also why he ran from 7 lefts most of the season. He is already on sticks that ought to put him over 18'.

My plan is to introduce him gradually to the process of getting stronger and faster while short running to keep the poles somewhere in the 14.5 range. When we back up he could weigh 190 and may need a 13.0 or bigger, especially if he is not quite finished growing, which at 17 is possible. My question is, what would you guys do? How in the world am I going to get him strong enough to handle his run and takeoff with only a year to work on it? Especially if he has next to no training experience. It is up to me to guide a talent I have never seen before, and if I make very few mistakes something very special could happen. Any suggestions will be appreciated.

Oldcoach
PV Nerd
Posts: 109
Joined: Tue Feb 25, 2003 3:45 pm

Re: Help with Jack

Unread postby Oldcoach » Thu Jul 31, 2008 4:42 pm

Tim,
You are touching on a subject I recently discussed with some college coaches- Do you shortcut the development process to get more immediate results? Few of us have the training time with an athlete that Petrov and Bubka had in the teen years.
I have not trained a athlete as apparently talented as Jack and have not had to answer the question personally-- but I keep wondering what would I do if in similar circumstances.
I have not seen Jack jump- but I would venture a guess that at 6'4" his swing is not fast enough to cover the pole. You I'm sure have better ideas on how to improve the swing velocity than I. But for more immediate results-- a more gymnastics oriented training may be a place to start.

User avatar
rainbowgirl28
I'm in Charge
Posts: 30435
Joined: Sat Aug 31, 2002 1:59 pm
Expertise: Former College Vaulter, I coach and officiate as life allows
Lifetime Best: 11'6"
Gender: Female
World Record Holder?: Renaud Lavillenie
Favorite Vaulter: Casey Carrigan
Location: A Temperate Island
Contact:

Re: Help with Jack

Unread postby rainbowgirl28 » Thu Jul 31, 2008 9:57 pm

Email Rick Baggett, he knows a ton of tough strength stuff that is body weight/med ball/core/etc. I'd think at least two months of that would be a good base and make him less likely to get injured once he does get in the weight room.

Soar Like an Eagle
PV Whiz
Posts: 181
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2006 11:08 am
Expertise: High School Coach, Fan,
Lifetime Best: 17'6"
Favorite Vaulter: Renaud Lavillenie, Steve Smith
Location: Charlotte, NC

Re: Help with Jack

Unread postby Soar Like an Eagle » Thu Jul 31, 2008 10:33 pm

Tim,

You do not need to ask, you know what to do. Just ask Joe Dial, he jumped 18’1” in 1981 and probably did not lift many weights in high school. I have the jump on video; he was 5’8” 135 when he made the high school record. In my opinion, the key is to keep things simple, have fun, and do not get injured (do not overtrain) and be fresh physically and mentally when jumping. Based on the poles he is on, it is important that he is very confident taking off. As talented as he is, he needs to spend time jumping along with a good gymnastics workout weekly. You jumped 18’6” (incredible) based on your size, speed, etc. Whatever you were doing was great. I would be very interested to see someone 6'4" 175 jump like you and Joe. Good luck

Tim McMichael wrote:I want a few suggestions as to what to do with Jack Whitt next. He has gone from a P.R. of 11'6" to 16'9" in 18 months. He has gone from a 14' 150 to a 16' 5" 200 in the same amount of time. Most of his improvement in pole sizes came in a five week period when he went from a 15' 180 to a 16' 9" 195. The change in the carry weight of the poles alone is enough to make me wonder how this happened.

Teaching the timing, position, and conceptual framework to try to get his jump to match his poles has been really tough, and we are miles away from it even now. I worked exclusively on his pole carry and plant and put his standards much further back than he was comfortable with for the entire season. This at least ensured that things were set up for the improvements to come, and it made sure that he never put a 15' 160 plant on a 16' 5" 200 pole. Some coaches have suggested that he ought to be jumping much higher, which is true, but I could not sacrifice the urgent need to solidify his run and takeoff to go after high bars. He is too tall and lanky to put an effective jump together through the middle of the jump with the poles he is on, which is why it has been all over the place all season. We have gotten better but there is still a long way to go.

He is 6' 4" and 175 pounds and has not seen the inside of a weight room. The only thing he did at practice was vault, which was just fine with me. He needed the reps, and the last thing I wanted was for him to need even bigger poles. This is also why he ran from 7 lefts most of the season. He is already on sticks that ought to put him over 18'.

My plan is to introduce him gradually to the process of getting stronger and faster while short running to keep the poles somewhere in the 14.5 range. When we back up he could weigh 190 and may need a 13.0 or bigger, especially if he is not quite finished growing, which at 17 is possible. My question is, what would you guys do? How in the world am I going to get him strong enough to handle his run and takeoff with only a year to work on it? Especially if he has next to no training experience. It is up to me to guide a talent I have never seen before, and if I make very few mistakes something very special could happen. Any suggestions will be appreciated.

User avatar
Barto
PV Great
Posts: 919
Joined: Thu Dec 26, 2002 1:55 pm
World Record Holder?: Renaud Lavillenie

Re: Help with Jack

Unread postby Barto » Mon Aug 25, 2008 7:54 am

Tim,

My 2 cents are worth about 1.5 these days, but here they are.

He doesn't need to lift much - if at all this year. Push ups, pull ups, body weight lunges, body weight squats, and abdominal work should be one focus of his physical prep. He is a long way from physically mature. There will be plenty of time later for higher intensity strength training. The other and more important focus should be learning to sprint. At least 3 sessions per week of sprinting with some acceleration development 5 days per week. Acceleration is a perishable skill. If you don't do it, you get worse at it. That doesn't mean you run 20 x 20m every day, but 4 x 30m at the end of the warm up is not too much no matter what the rest of the workout is planned to be.

Technically, he needs to get married to 15' poles. Keep him inside 5 lefts until he can rep 15' gripping 14'. Even at his height he should be able to make that jump 80% of the time before he moves back and raises his grip. If he moves back before he is ready he will be slowing down his overall development - period. I know you know this, but I'll say it for the sake of the peanut gallery, "It is virtually impossible to learn to pole vault well gripping over 14'." Once he is proficient at that level, then raising his grip and keeping efficiency is not too difficult.

Good luck! Oklahoma needs another high school 18'er.
Facts, Not Fiction

ArcadiaPV
PV Wannabe
Posts: 33
Joined: Sun Oct 07, 2007 8:03 pm
Expertise: Former High School Vaulter, Former College Vaulter,High School Coach
Location: Arcadia, CA
Contact:

Re: Help with Jack

Unread postby ArcadiaPV » Fri Apr 17, 2009 1:32 pm

Guess it worked out ;)

User avatar
altius
PV Rock Star
Posts: 2425
Joined: Mon Apr 04, 2005 8:27 am
Location: adelaide, australia
Contact:

Re: Help with Jack

Unread postby altius » Fri Apr 17, 2009 7:58 pm

"Joe Dial, he jumped 18’1” in 1981 and probably did not lift many weights in high school. I have the jump on video"

"He doesn't need to lift much - if at all this year."


Oh what lovely words! :D

Technique first , technique last , technique always. Gradually moving to the Petrov model????? - at least the run, plant and free take off!!! :yes:
Its what you learn after you know it all that counts. John Wooden

baggettpv
PV Master
Posts: 707
Joined: Mon Sep 09, 2002 2:04 pm
Location: Oregon City, Or
Contact:

Re: Help with Jack

Unread postby baggettpv » Sat Apr 18, 2009 1:29 am

Do not and I repeat Do not Sacrifice later success for immediate results! So many of the HS guys don't make it.

Rick Baggett
WSTC LLC
Good coaching is good teaching.


Return to “Pole Vault - Coaches Forum”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 11 guests