Rope

[miniwhinny]

Planning on getting a rope for training but I have to make the frame to hang it from. Can anyone give me an idea of how high the two uprights need to be to be able to use the rope the way you need to and also how far apart so you wouldn't hit them. The "frame" will basically look like a giant high bar.

Thanks

(sorry for so many newb Q's)

[KirkB]

Don't apologize for all your Q's. They're all good ones, and by answering them, I'm sure we answer many questions that others have but aren't asking.

You said in another thread that you can readily get 21' pipes. After re-thinking this, I think these are a little short for the uprights, especially with about 3' into the ground. I suggest cementing some sleeves into the concrete, flush with the ground ... otherwise you'd have to use a cutting torch to remove the uprights, when you no longer need them. Use a thin plastic sleeve between the inner and outer pipes, for a snug fit. Ditto on the highbar that we discussed, where you can change the height of it.

Really, a 30' or 40' rope would be better than a 19' rope, because it doesn't take much time or energy to climb 19', considering that your hands are already 5' off the ground when you start. It also gives a gentler swinging action for drills where you jog up to the rope and simulate a takeoff. Another drill where the longer the rope the better is swinging on it like a normal swing ... except you hang upside down and extend your legs up each time you swing up - back and forth.

So maybe join two of those pipes together to make about 39' instead of 18'. But if you're going to go that high, you also need some rigging cables to support the uprights as you swing back and forth. I think the one I used in college - tied to the ceiling of the gym - was about 30', but I can't say exactly. For outdoors, the higher the better.

Make the uprights at least 6' and maybe as much as 10' apart. The cost of the extra 4' is practically nothing, and gives you a better safety factor. Also, don't just make a giant highbar shape. Reinforce the top corners with a couple diagonally welded pieces. I'm assuming you're going to hang the rings from the same supports, so make sure the diagonal pieces don't interfere with the swinging of the rings. And yes ... swinging RINGS drills are great PV drills too! Don't worry, pole vaulters are a tough bunch - they have self-preservation, so they WON'T let go. (Just in case you're one of those worry-wart moms.)

Protrude a hook or bolt of some sort out at about the bottom of one of the diagonal brackets, so that you can hang the rope there while you're using the rings.

Maybe draw a plan for us to comment on? Maybe a little more formal than your last diagram, but along the same lines. If you have any more questions, please ask.

If anyone else has any suggestions on the ideal height of the rope, I'd be interested to hear your ideas. There's no "perfect" height ... the higher the better IMHO. It might also depend on what length of rope you can find.

A thick, braided all-weather (polyester or nylon) rope is best - thin ropes are too hard on the hands. The thicker the better. The kind that off-roaders use to pull their four-wheel-drives out of the mud.

Kirk

[miniwhinny]

Oh wow, that's HIGH ! LOL. I need some bigger trees around here I wasn't expecting you to say it had to be that high...but, that's why I asked you experts.

I want to do this as well as I can but I may have to skimp on the rope a little - hahah see, you intimidated me with the thought of two 75 foot high poles bringing down local aircraft. Gee I may have to put lights on the top (or sell cell phone tower rent)

There's a farm supply store in town that sells 100% unbleached cotton rope. It comes in widths from pinky finger thin to about 2 inches diameter. It's really nice rope, soft, doesn't give rope burns and very flexable. I've used it outdoors on numberous projects and despite the High Desert's hot dry summers and freezing winters it lasts for years. So that's what I was thinking of using.

Okay, before I rule out that height I'm going to look at the trees around here...

Oh and nervous nelly...of course I am...I'm a mom lol

[KirkB]

Oh wow, that's HIGH ! LOL. I need some bigger trees around here I wasn't expecting you to say it had to be that high...but, that's why I asked you experts.

I want to do this as well as I can but I may have to skimp on the rope a little - hahah see, you intimidated me with the thought of two 75 foot high poles bringing down local aircraft. ...

I said 30-40', not 75'.

We had 40-50' ropes that we hung to large limbs of trees on our farm and swung out over a gully. But we never built any frames to hang them from. Like I said, the higher the better, but it would not be WRONG to make it 19' high. It would just be so much better if you add another 10-20' to it. I'd like to hear other "expert" opinions on this too ... I'm just speaking from my own experience.

I live on the "Wet Coast" (deliberately mispelt), so any ropes left out over winter tend to rot when infested with tree crud and insects. If that's not the case with cotton, then that sounds perfect. Ours were "farm ropes" ... used with cattle ... made of twisted and braided hemp, I think. They didn't even have polyester ropes back in my day. If we had cotton, it wasn't used on farms ... to my knowledge. The 2" cotton rope might be a little thick. Don't get anything thicker than a PV pole. The closer to that diameter the better.

And yes, if you can find a couple tall trees and string a pipe between them, then that woud save the cost and trouble of uprights. Cable would work too, but pipe wouldn't "sink" as much with the weight of the vaulter on it.

Rope aside, you still need the uprights (at about 19') for the rings, right?

Kirk

[meeisgood]

You are the best Pole Vault mom ever. Every year my mom asks me if I want to quit. This year she said, "Well now that you've won states there's no reason to keep competing." Meanwhile you are considering building a 50 foot structure in your back yard. Keep up the good work.

[miniwhinny]

Oh thank you ((((((HUGS)))))) What a kind thing to say

You won State? Wow...congratulations, well done !!!!!!!

[miniwhinny]

KirkB (or anyone else who has ideas)

how does this look? I couldn't put measurements on my sketch...couldn't figure out my program!

The upper sketch is what you'd see looking down from above so you can see the angles. I gave it some 45 degree angles for more stability.

L to R = Short bar (not sure what else to call it) at approx 4 feet. High bar will be 8' above ground. The center rope/rings will be 18' ( I'm still going to put a higher one up on it's own but have some major tree trimming to do it so this will be another shorter one) The side one is angled at 45 degrees (saw one like this last week). Uprights will be 2 inch galvanised steel. Any bar that you will hold will be 1 to 1 1/4 inch outside diameter - gotta ask the steel company what they have (measured a few poles here to see lol).

Pipes wil be 3 feet into the ground - I love your idea of using sleeves.

[KirkB]

... how does this look? I couldn't put measurements on my sketch...couldn't figure out my program!

I think this is going to be great!

Just wondering about a couple things ...

1. Not sure what you'd use the angled bar for. I think it's a good idea, I'm just not aware of any particular highbar drills to do on it, altho I guess the kids and their coaches will think of something useful to do with it. Any ideas, anyone? Even if it's not used to hang on, it's still a good stabilizer, with good potential for "freehand" tricks.

2. The ideal crossbar (the 8' high one) should be as close to a real gymnastic highbar as possible, both in diameter and in feel ... NOT the diameter of a pole (however, the rope should be the diameter of the pole). Gymnastic highbars aren't smooth ... they have a textured surface that holds chalk ... or at least they feel textured once there's sufficient chalk on them. For outdoors, it's a little different because of rain. But it still needs to hold the chalk ... or at least be capable of being sanded down to a textured surface so your hands don't slip. I don't know what to advise you, other than to ask anyone else that has experience with an outdoor highbar how you can simulate a real highbar. I don't think you should just buy a pipe of the right diameter and put it up. A little research and forethought to get the right crossbar might be important. Any ideas, anyone?

Related to point #2, you should be aware of highbar "grips" which keep you from slipping off the bar. They're demonstrated here by Dub Jones: http://www.polevaultpower.com/media/video/skillsanddrills/giant.mov. I'm not saying that you have to be able to do giants to be a good pole vaulter, but it wouldn't hurt. Even just for swinging (see some of the other highbar drills here: http://www.polevaultpower.com/media/video/skillsanddrills/).

I have no experience with these, but I sure wish I had them in my day, as my hands ripped (or almost ripped) every time I did giants. Could someone please advise Whinny about this. There's also other threads on PVP about these, and you'll find them for sale online in gymnastic supply houses. Maybe if you have these grips, you don't need to worry about the texture of the bar? (That's a question for whomever has experience with this.)

Kirk

[miniwhinny]

KirkB - can't thank you enough, you've been so helpful Now just wait til I want to learn how to PV

I never thought about the high bar being a different texture....will look into that. Also Matts new club (Tom) was mentioning these grips that hold you onto the bar so I'll look into those...gosh there's no simple project is there lol

Last week Matt joined a PV club in Bend (with Tom - the thread was in the "general" section - which was AWESOME !!! ) any how under the stands there was a high bar set. One of the bars was at a 45 degree. There was a decathalete there who said his coach had shown him how to hold it like you were holding a pole and swing up? Not sure how much use it would get...I was presuming everyone (but me ) knew about them lol.


Not worht having?