1-2-3 Standards

[rainbowgirl28]

So far I have moved six times in the past year, within three very different parts of the state, so I was not doing much coaching.

What I have been doing is a lot of officiating!

At the Pole Vault Summit, they give the high school groups the options of three settings for the standards. At the all-comers mets I officiate and at my beach vaults, I do the same thing.

It really makes things go so much faster. At most of the high school meets I went to, every single vault we had to change standards, even though they were often within an inch or two of the previous person.


I think the NFHS should adopt this rule nationwide.

1 - The closest allowable setting (currently 15.5, but I would love to see it pushed back to 18)
2 - Something in between the two settings, usually ~24
3 - The farthest back setting (currently 31.5, they should just make it 32)

It would speed up the length of high school pole vault competitions, and make the vaulters not think about their standards so much.

What do you think?

[kev44000]

I think it is a great idea. Most high school kids flag over the bar anyway. It would I think only affect a handfull of elite high school vaulters where they have to have the standards just right. At the Summit after watching video, Jack we think would have made 17.04 if we could have had the standards where we actually needed them.

[KirkB]

If it's to speed up the competition, then I think it's a good idea ... but only for the lower heights. Once a certain number of competitors are left, then I think exact settings should be allowed.

This can be considered the "preliminary rounds", and maybe should be used just to get the field down to the number of athletes that can earn points. (I'm not sure how many that is in HS comps.)

Here's another twist ... with an incentive to athletes to set the standards all the way back ... the safest setting (unless the vaulter is flying out the BACK of the pit).

At each height, make everyone that insists on setting their standards to 18 go first. So athletes can pass the HEIGHT or they can pass the STANDARD SETTING.

Then all the athletes wanting their standards at 25 (halfway between 18 and 32) go next.

Finally, everyone wanting their standards at 32 go.

Not only will this reduce the number of times the officials need to adjust the standards, but it might also give a competitive advantage to athletes setting their standards to 32 ... becuz they can decide once others have jumped whether to pass the height or not. I could be wrong, but I'm of the opinion that vaulters should almost ALWAYS jump with their standards all the way back ... especially at heights well below their PRs ... so any way to encourage this is a good thing.

Just an idea.

BTW, I don't like too many rule changes ... especially at the elite level. i.e. Max of 7 jumps. But for beach vaults, and HS vaults with a ridiculous number of jumpers, I think a rule like this is a good idea.

Kirk

[VaultPurple]

NO MORE RULES!!!!!!!

Not everyone pikes at 40, 60 or 80

Why should an athlete be punished because his max height is at 70? That 4 inches can make a world of difference. And especially 8inches if you are hitting 60 on the way up but there is no way you can make it all the way back to 80.

The main reason I have problem with this is that if I have to move the standards to 80 to make a bar, I am going up a pole on my next vault and bringing them in.

If you can move the standards from 60 to 80 for a vaulter then you can just as easily move it from 60 to 62. Ads what 0 seconds to the meet if the vaulter changes the board as the guy in front of him is going down the runway, then the people working the standards move it once the guy hits the mat. They can move the standards in the time it takes the guy to get up off the mat.


Also. I wouldn't have been able to be the cool kids with his standards on 69 at a meet

[rainbowgirl28]

NO MORE RULES!!!!!!!

Not everyone pikes at 40, 60 or 80

Why should an athlete be punished because his max height is at 70? That 4 inches can make a world of difference. And especially 8inches if you are hitting 60 on the way up but there is no way you can make it all the way back to 80.

The main reason I have problem with this is that if I have to move the standards to 80 to make a bar, I am going up a pole on my next vault and bringing them in.

If you can move the standards from 60 to 80 for a vaulter then you can just as easily move it from 60 to 62. Ads what 0 seconds to the meet if the vaulter changes the board as the guy in front of him is going down the runway, then the people working the standards move it once the guy hits the mat. They can move the standards in the time it takes the guy to get up off the mat.


Also. I wouldn't have been able to be the cool kids with his standards on 69 at a meet

Seriously, for most high school kids it really doesn't matter that much. Heck I'd vote for just leaving them at 32" all the time, but I know not every school has a perfect series of poles available.

How many high school meets have a great pit crew? Or even a board for athletes to use to indicate their setting? And even with those things in place, it's rare to get a group of high school kids that are that on the ball and will actually do it promptly, despite repeated instructions. 1-2-3 saves time because they are moved less often.

[rainbowgirl28]

If it's to speed up the competition, then I think it's a good idea ... but only for the lower heights. Once a certain number of competitors are left, then I think exact settings should be allowed.

This can be considered the "preliminary rounds", and maybe should be used just to get the field down to the number of athletes that can earn points. (I'm not sure how many that is in HS comps.)

Here's another twist ... with an incentive to athletes to set the standards all the way back ... the safest setting (unless the vaulter is flying out the BACK of the pit).

At each height, make everyone that insists on setting their standards to 18 go first. So athletes can pass the HEIGHT or they can pass the STANDARD SETTING.

Then all the athletes wanting their standards at 25 (halfway between 18 and 32) go next.

Finally, everyone wanting their standards at 32 go.

Not only will this reduce the number of times the officials need to adjust the standards, but it might also give a competitive advantage to athletes setting their standards to 32 ... becuz they can decide once others have jumped whether to pass the height or not. I could be wrong, but I'm of the opinion that vaulters should almost ALWAYS jump with their standards all the way back ... especially at heights well below their PRs ... so any way to encourage this is a good thing.

Just an idea.

BTW, I don't like too many rule changes ... especially at the elite level. i.e. Max of 7 jumps. But for beach vaults, and HS vaults with a ridiculous number of jumpers, I think a rule like this is a good idea.

Kirk

Oh Kirk, you're overanalyzing again. Most high school vaulters do not pass once they enter. HS meets are rarely tactical, they usually just jump and try to go as high as they can and hope it's higher than the other guy.

Switching the order would mean less time moving standards, but too confusing for the average not-so-bright high schooler or official who may just be someone's parent that doesn't know what they are doing.

[VaultPurple]

how many high school meets have a great pit crew? Or even a board for athletes to use to indicate their setting? And even with those things in place, it's rare to get a group of high school kids that are that on the ball and will actually do it promptly, despite repeated instructions. 1-2-3 saves time because they are moved less often.

Yeah but honestly how many high school meets (ie. duel meets) actually follow all the rules anyway. They are basically just two teams with maybe 2-6 pole vaulters at the max. For me at most meets we were the only team that had pole vaulting. There was no standard crew, just our parents and teammates. No one besides me really knew the rules anyway (and that's just from spending so much time on pole vault power).

So honestly the people the rule would be made to hurry up would never really be affected by it. Maybe for you since you ref smaller meets but that is about it.

Only guys that would be affected would be the ones that go to major meets at Universities, and they usually have plenty of help.

And how many 16-17-18 foot vaulters would be p'd off to find out they can't change their standards where they want them. Yeah this would help with lower guys but the rules affect everyone the same from 8-18'.

Were Jack's standards on 40-60-80 every time he jumped over 17 this year?

[baggettpv]

All my vaulters are at 80 cm.

Rick Baggett
WSTC

[rainbowgirl28]

And how many 16-17-18 foot vaulters would be p'd off to find out they can't change their standards where they want them. Yeah this would help with lower guys but the rules affect everyone the same from 8-18'.

Guys over 16' is maybe 1% of total high school vaulters. If they can't figure out how to make the adjustments to clear the bar with the standards at one of the three choices, they probably don't deserve to jump that high. If the peak of your jump is super narrow and you can't figure out how to make a bar that is 10cm forward or back of a given point, you're probably not doing it right...

I'm not worried about the elite HS vaulters. They have lots of non-HS meets to jump in, and they'll vault in college. You're making a huge deal out of nothing.


Jack's dad said that at one meet this year, maybe he could have made a higher height with a different standard setting (a meet which he did PR at). I think that Jack is a good enough vaulter that he could have figured out how to make bars at every meet no matter what the choices were for the standards. The best vaults just adjust to what is thrown at them. The variance in facilities, temperature, and wind is going to affect a vaulter in a meet way more than the ability to move their standards within 1" of the precise location they want them.

[CowtownPV]

To me moving the standards is moving the standards, how much faster is it to go from 1 to 3 to 2 to 3 etc than it is to go from 22 to 25 to 30 to 21to 29 etc. If the standards are well marked and easy to move then it is just as easy to move it to 19 as it is to move it to 1. Assuming of corse that you have people who know what they are doing working the standards.

[Bubba PV]

We don't allow anything closer than 80 cm at practice or meets. I have occasionally moved them in 10 cm near the end of a meet, sometimes without telling the vaulter. Maximum pole speed and safety = past vertical. If the kids can't get to 80 cm they can lower their grips or do things better at the take off. Never fails, if you move the standards in and they come down on it harder. Once they see that they buy into leaving the standards back and trying to get better. Good suggestion Becca. Great for meets. Bubba

PS - a kid with standards on 18" who almost hits it on the way up AND on the way down, but has a foot of bar height, is in danger anyway. If he moved his grip down and standards back he would probably have 1' of clearance all the way around and jump higher. For those of you referring to the high school studs, please read on.

True story – Dean Starkey told me a story about giving this advice to Riian Botha of South Africa. Riian was a little guy who capped 17’ poles. He kept having huge height but coming down on the bar. Rather than move the standards in, at Dean’s suggestion he dropped his grip a hand width and boomed 19’ 4” by nearly a foot. Dean said that was the last time he ever offered him advice. Sure enough, Botha’s grip went back up and he quit leaving up the high bars.

Final Note – I was back and forth on and off the field during the 1996 Olympic Final and the conditions were less than ideal. Swirly winds and sporadic rains on the biggest day of these guy’s lives. The top three broke Sergey’s previous record. Trandenkov had his standards on 65 cm for one jump and everyone else was at 70 cm (28”) or further – on a bad condition day. The pole past vertical gives more blow off the top and a more consistent jump. Not bad advice for anyone.

[VaultPurple]

wasn't debating that farther back is bad. We keep standards on like 100 during practice. Just every one jumps different. Just seems to me like all the new proposals for pole vault lately seem to be keeping people vaulting lower (from high school to professional). Shorter pegs, rounded crossbars, less attempts....