1-2-3 Standards

News about national level high school pole vaulting, pole vaulters, rules, etc. Things that are of local interest only should go in the regional forums below. High schoolers wanting to chat should go to the High School Lounge.

Moderators: Robert schmitt, Russ

User avatar
Bubba PV
PV Lover
Posts: 1395
Joined: Tue Apr 19, 2005 2:58 pm
Expertise: Former College Vaulter, High School Coach, College Coach, Former Elite Vaulter, Masters Vaulter, FAN
Lifetime Best: 5.51
Favorite Vaulter: Bubka
Location: Monarch Beach (Dana Point), California
Contact:

Re: 1-2-3 Standards

Unread postby Bubba PV » Sun Aug 02, 2009 1:13 pm

I understand and I certainly see your points. They are truly valid and your posts are informative. I think my point was that for most HS kids, it might be one less thing for them to think about. But again, you make good points. Bubba
Bubba Sparks - www.bubbapv.com

Support Becca & Pole Vault Power

User avatar
AVC Coach
PV Lover
Posts: 1386
Joined: Fri May 23, 2003 9:21 am
Expertise: Former College Vaulter, Current Coach (All levels)
World Record Holder?: Renaud Lavillenie
Favorite Vaulter: Miah Sanders
Location: Black Springs, Arkansas
Contact:

Re: 1-2-3 Standards

Unread postby AVC Coach » Sun Aug 02, 2009 1:58 pm

I'm with CowtownPV on this one. Moving them is moving them, so why not set them anywhere (within legal perimeters) that an athlete wants?

User avatar
vault3rb0y
PV Rock Star
Posts: 2458
Joined: Wed Apr 26, 2006 6:59 pm
Expertise: College Coach, Former College Vaulter
Lifetime Best: 5.14m
Location: Still Searching
Contact:

Re: 1-2-3 Standards

Unread postby vault3rb0y » Sun Aug 02, 2009 9:30 pm

I keep hearing a lot of "MOST athletes do this....", "MOST athletes do that...."... what about the others? Should they be forced to choose 1 of 3 standard settings because MOST athletes it doesnt matter for?

I love the standards no farther than 18 rule. On top of that tho i would propose increments of 10cm. I agree that moving from 53 to 58 is stupid, but I would have been pretty pissed if i were at a HS meet trying to work my way onto a new pole and cant quite clear it on 80 and 60 is too close, and they say "no you have to choose". Give me 70 dangit!! Also i would suggest that when only 3-5 competitors remain you open it up to whatever again. That will keep the elites happy and since the issue is the time complain officials have for running meets, at the time only 3-5 remain, moving the standards to different places shouldnt effect the time anyway.
The greater the challenge, the more glorious the triumph

User avatar
rainbowgirl28
I'm in Charge
Posts: 30435
Joined: Sat Aug 31, 2002 1:59 pm
Expertise: Former College Vaulter, I coach and officiate as life allows
Lifetime Best: 11'6"
Gender: Female
World Record Holder?: Renaud Lavillenie
Favorite Vaulter: Casey Carrigan
Location: A Temperate Island
Contact:

Re: 1-2-3 Standards

Unread postby rainbowgirl28 » Sun Aug 02, 2009 11:21 pm

vault3rb0y wrote:I keep hearing a lot of "MOST athletes do this....", "MOST athletes do that...."... what about the others? Should they be forced to choose 1 of 3 standard settings because MOST athletes it doesnt matter for?

I love the standards no farther than 18 rule. On top of that tho i would propose increments of 10cm. I agree that moving from 53 to 58 is stupid, but I would have been pretty pissed if i were at a HS meet trying to work my way onto a new pole and cant quite clear it on 80 and 60 is too close, and they say "no you have to choose". Give me 70 dangit!! Also i would suggest that when only 3-5 competitors remain you open it up to whatever again. That will keep the elites happy and since the issue is the time complain officials have for running meets, at the time only 3-5 remain, moving the standards to different places shouldnt effect the time anyway.


10cm sounds good to me, but the high school goes in inches which is messier. But you could do 18-22-28-32 and have the same effect.

And I would not be opposed to saying the last vaulter can have them wherever they want within that range. Or last three vaulters. Since you guys are soooo worried about the 1% of vaulters who this might negatively affect, most of them are the winner of most of their meets.

kev44000
PV Pro
Posts: 447
Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2007 10:23 pm
Favorite Vaulter: Jack Whitt & Mark Hollis
Location: norman oklahoma

Re: 1-2-3 Standards

Unread postby kev44000 » Mon Aug 03, 2009 12:22 am

Becca great topic The vault at the high school level needs to go off quicker for sure.

User avatar
pv161
PV Nerd
Posts: 95
Joined: Fri Sep 01, 2006 12:10 pm
Expertise: high school/club coach, masters vaulter, former college vaulter, usatf official
Lifetime Best: 4.91
Location: Springfield, Ore.
Contact:

Re: 1-2-3 Standards

Unread postby pv161 » Mon Aug 03, 2009 1:15 am

having coachd high shcool pv for 20 yrs and officiated more meets then I can remember I have never found moving the standards to be a problem. if you want to speed up the competition I have lots of suggestions but I'll just list the main ones. 1. limit jv jumpers the same as varsity. around here at least varsity is limited to 3 competitors from each school but no limit on jv. I have seen schools enter 6 to 8 jv. this can add up to 25 or more vaulters at a dual meet. 2. I don't think this can be regulated by rules but by commen sense from the coach and the competitor, why start at a bar 2 to 3 feet lower then your pr and jump at every bar? I have heard many coaches tell there vaulters to start low and use the meet as a practice.

User avatar
rainbowgirl28
I'm in Charge
Posts: 30435
Joined: Sat Aug 31, 2002 1:59 pm
Expertise: Former College Vaulter, I coach and officiate as life allows
Lifetime Best: 11'6"
Gender: Female
World Record Holder?: Renaud Lavillenie
Favorite Vaulter: Casey Carrigan
Location: A Temperate Island
Contact:

Re: 1-2-3 Standards

Unread postby rainbowgirl28 » Mon Aug 03, 2009 3:00 am

pv161 wrote:having coachd high shcool pv for 20 yrs and officiated more meets then I can remember I have never found moving the standards to be a problem. if you want to speed up the competition I have lots of suggestions but I'll just list the main ones. 1. limit jv jumpers the same as varsity. around here at least varsity is limited to 3 competitors from each school but no limit on jv. I have seen schools enter 6 to 8 jv. this can add up to 25 or more vaulters at a dual meet. 2. I don't think this can be regulated by rules but by commen sense from the coach and the competitor, why start at a bar 2 to 3 feet lower then your pr and jump at every bar? I have heard many coaches tell there vaulters to start low and use the meet as a practice.


The number of vaulters in the competition is all set at the local level, that varies widely across the country.

I don't think there is a good way to write a rule about coming in too low. Sometimes a kid has an off day or they are hurt or did not get enough sleep or the conditions are bad and they need to come in low. Sometimes kids PR 7 times in one meet. It happens!

User avatar
VaultPurple
PV Lover
Posts: 1079
Joined: Wed Feb 20, 2008 9:44 pm
Expertise: Former College Vaulter, College Coach, Pole Vault Addict
Favorite Vaulter: Greg Duplantis
Location: North Carolina

Re: 1-2-3 Standards

Unread postby VaultPurple » Mon Aug 03, 2009 3:16 am

10cm sounds good to me, but the high school goes in inches which is messier. But you could do 18-22-28-32 and have the same effect.


But I like 24"! ;)

User avatar
KirkB
PV Rock Star
Posts: 3550
Joined: Mon May 19, 2008 6:05 pm
Expertise: Former College Vaulter; Former Elite Vaulter; Former Coach; Fan
Lifetime Best: 5.34
Favorite Vaulter: Thiago da Silva
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada

Re: 1-2-3 Standards

Unread postby KirkB » Mon Aug 03, 2009 3:59 pm

rainbowgirl28 wrote: Oh Kirk, you're overanalyzing again. Most high school vaulters do not pass once they enter. HS meets are rarely tactical, they usually just jump and try to go as high as they can and hope it's higher than the other guy.

Switching the order would mean less time moving standards, but too confusing for the average not-so-bright high schooler or official who may just be someone's parent that doesn't know what they are doing.

Realistically, I didn't think my idea of changing the jump order to minimize standards adjustments would fly ... for the reasons you stated. However, I threw that out there, in case there was any traction on ANY PART of this idea.

Really ... and this is contrary to what Cowtown says ... if there's only 3 settings, then you're going to have less total adjustments. That's becuz SOME jumpers will want the same setting as the last guy that jumped. If there's 40 settings (in the range of 40-80), then there's less chance of this. Even if vaulters round to the nearest 5 cm, there's still 9 distinct settings.

Becca, at the risk of once again over-analyzing :), based on pure random settings, there's going to be about one-third the standard changes in a meet with the 1-2-3 settings, compared to the 40-80 range settings (in increments of 5). Based on an apparent bias towards settings on "80" (or "3"), the number of changes is reduced.

Here's another idea I'll toss out ... based on the bias towards 80 (31.5") ...

Every time the bar is raised, ask if anyone wants to attempt that bar at a standard setting other than "80". If there is, they go first ... in the listed order ... at their desired (exact) setting. Then, everyone else uses the 80 setting. That's almost as good as what I suggested previously, but doesn't infringe on the freedom of vaulters to move their standards anywhere within range that they want ... it just changes the order slightly ... so slightly that it shouldn't be a huge challenge for "unskilled" PV officials to administer.

As an aside, it's interesting that at the HS level, standard settings still seem to use inches, whereas at college and elsewhere, cm is the norm in the US. This is silly, since the numbers are only relative to each other. A rookie vaulter could understand "80" just as easily as they understand "32", so why perpetuate the imperial system? :confused:

Kirk
Run. Plant. Jump. Stretch. Whip. Extend. Fly. Clear. There is no tuck! THERE IS NO DELAY!

User avatar
KirkB
PV Rock Star
Posts: 3550
Joined: Mon May 19, 2008 6:05 pm
Expertise: Former College Vaulter; Former Elite Vaulter; Former Coach; Fan
Lifetime Best: 5.34
Favorite Vaulter: Thiago da Silva
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada

Re: 1-2-3 Standards

Unread postby KirkB » Mon Aug 03, 2009 4:08 pm

rainbowgirl28 wrote: ... 10cm sounds good to me, but the high school goes in inches which is messier. But you could do 18-22-28-32 and have the same effect. ...

Analyze this ...

Go 16-20-24-28-32. That's not only more consistent (increments of 4"), it gives VP his 24! ;)

Kirk
Run. Plant. Jump. Stretch. Whip. Extend. Fly. Clear. There is no tuck! THERE IS NO DELAY!

User avatar
rainbowgirl28
I'm in Charge
Posts: 30435
Joined: Sat Aug 31, 2002 1:59 pm
Expertise: Former College Vaulter, I coach and officiate as life allows
Lifetime Best: 11'6"
Gender: Female
World Record Holder?: Renaud Lavillenie
Favorite Vaulter: Casey Carrigan
Location: A Temperate Island
Contact:

Re: 1-2-3 Standards

Unread postby rainbowgirl28 » Mon Aug 03, 2009 4:44 pm

KirkB wrote:
rainbowgirl28 wrote: ... 10cm sounds good to me, but the high school goes in inches which is messier. But you could do 18-22-28-32 and have the same effect. ...

Analyze this ...

Go 16-20-24-28-32. That's not only more consistent (increments of 4"), it gives VP his 24! ;)

Kirk


Hah! I fail at math :P

I still like 18 better than 16, but changes usually happen best in small doses.

User avatar
VaultPurple
PV Lover
Posts: 1079
Joined: Wed Feb 20, 2008 9:44 pm
Expertise: Former College Vaulter, College Coach, Pole Vault Addict
Favorite Vaulter: Greg Duplantis
Location: North Carolina

Re: 1-2-3 Standards

Unread postby VaultPurple » Mon Aug 03, 2009 8:46 pm

ok ill let that fly for high school....

Thank God for college!


Return to “Pole Vault - High School”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 23 guests