Should wooden runways be allowed to count for out. records?

[rainbowgirl28]

Currently, American outdoor records cannot be set on wooden runways (which are legal for indoors).

Should this rule be amended for masters competitions? The runways would have to meet the same requirements as indoors (cannot be excessively sprung) and maybe there should be some sort of proof that they were level (since indoors it's kind of a given).

Pros:
- Masters would be able to set records at beach/street vaults.
- More flexibility for meet directors to set up pole vault runways anywhere in a stadium.

Cons:
- Is a wooden runway an inherent advantage? I know people generally _like_ competing on them, but do they actually offer a physiological advantage, or is it just psychological (most meets with wooden runways are also more fun, i.e. PV Summit, Beach/Street Vaults).


What are your thoughts?

[master]

Although I have never actually measured them, all outdoor elevated runways I have been on seemed to me to not be level (within the rules). However, if they did meet the rules, I don't see why a record height jump shouldn't count for a record.

- master

[nitro]

Although I have never actually measured them, all outdoor elevated runways I have been on seemed to me to not be level (within the rules). However, if they did meet the rules, I don't see why a record height jump shouldn't count for a record.

- master

i agree.... Most of the board runways i see are not within the rules so i don't think any marks from those meets should count since the facility is illegal but there are some people that set up the elevated runways that are legal and if its legal it should count! Officials need to do a better job at sanctioned events on checking the runway though.

[Bubba PV]

I say start at Clovis. Clearly that is a compliant runway so if it can be sanctioned then others who meet an inspection standard could too. Just thinking out loud.

I personally haven't had much luck on those downhill runways. I would also be afraid I couldn’t jump on a real one if I trained on one. I think I'd rather have an average place to train so that every other place feels good. Bubba

[PV Official]

From the NCAA rulebook: In the pole vault and high jump, measurement of the official height shall be
from a point on the same level as the takeoff to the lowest point on the upper
side of the crossbar.

The wooden runways I have seen have a black rubber mat covering the wood. The mat may cause the top of the box to be below the jumping surface. In order for a legal measurement to be made, the mat should extend to the area behind the box. As was mentioned before, I think you would also have to prove the runway was level.

[rainbowgirl28]

So it sounds like people aren't too worried about wooden runways being "unfair" as long as they are truly level (which is a legit issue at beach/street vaults).

What would be a good way of proving a runway was level. I am guessing most people here would want something more than an official signing something saying it was level. So what should this proof consist of?

[vaultmd]

I say start at Clovis. Clearly that is a compliant runway so if it can be sanctioned then others who meet an inspection standard could too.

The runway at Clovis isn't legal, at least the time I officiated. They get an hour to set up the runway, pit, standards and seating AND get the athletes ready to go. There is no time to shoot a laser or anything. There is barely enough time to get the standards right. I had to tell Kay Glynn that I couldn't sign for a record she was contemplating because not I nor anyone I knew had a chance to survey the runway. Good thing it didn't become an issue.

On the other hand, all if Tye's street vaults had really, really level runways. We (a bunch of us) usually spent hours getting them right because I made it very clear that they would be looking for another official if I wasn't totally comfortable with the legality of the facility. I think the athletes actually appreciated this. They could at least take one variable out of their pole selection equations. The extra attention to the runways always resulted in a really solid runway, too - no bouncing or rocking or anything like that. So I think the guys and girls were able to jump with more confidence.

[rainbowgirl28]

I had to tell Kay Glynn that I couldn't sign for a record she was contemplating because not I nor anyone I knew had a chance to survey the runway. Good thing it didn't become an issue.

And wooden runways are specifically forbidden in the USATF rules for outdoor records, so it would be a waste of her time to get all the paperwork filled out.

[PVJunkie]

Level is a given. All the rules say donwnhill is illegal.

Now the "bounce" is a rule. Poured surfaces have been deemed illegal due to too much return. I say if the boards meet that rule then there is no issue.

I DO think that there are too many board runways used, indoor and out, that do not get set up properly/legally. I spend hours leveling the 2 board runways here in both directions (no slant left or right and not downhill). I know this is not true of every street vault/indoor board set up. So for that reason I think that records on boards should be allowed ONLY if the set up were certified in some manner....surveyed, inspected, documented by some outside source. If you want a record setting event you would invest the extra money to do this.

[Tom Wilson]

Yes they should be allowed. They should be level and not downhill past the requirements. We have a board runway that we have at our practice facility and it is level. We have done off site "street" vaults that we setup for and have done it both level and downhill using preplanned and built full width shims. Indoor board runways are level. I believe the indoor ones yes for allowing records for sure. Outdoor ones need to stay within the rules but with planning I don't think it would be too hard to accomplish. As a Masters we should promote all legitimate opportunities for records.

[kcvault]

We did not have a track this year so we trained strictly on a box runway outside. The poles I was able to get on on a box runway were the exact same size as the ones I would get on on a reguler runway. Even if theres a lot of bounce I think it averages out since this makes the runway less solid resulting in some loss in speed. Either way I definatly think if the runway is level records on it should count.

[2-15-46]

IF THEY ARE SET UP BY THE RULES OF ACTUAL DELINE...THEN WHAT'S THE PROBLEM? YEARS AGO (DATING MYSELF) WE RAN ON CINDER RUNWAYS, GRASS, DIRT, THEN THEY EVOLVED TO ASPHALT, THEN RUBBER, THEN YOU COULD THROW ON A CONVEYER BELG OR A ROLL UP MOST GOOD TRACKS TODAY HAVE MONDO WHICH IS SUPER FAST.............COME NOW...WHERE'S COMMON SENSE IN THIS ISSUE.