Scholarships

[Capt Caveman]

I spoke to a D1 College coach about this recently and here is what I took away from it.

1 - Pole vaulters only do one event for the team (typically). There are only 2 or 3 events that this is true of - PV, HJ and a lot of times the jav. So that puts those 3 events on the bottom of the list when it comes to potential for money.

2 - Distance runners are always on the top of the list since the can score for 2 sports and multiple events. They have CC money too but since its the same coaching staff they play with track/CC monery. No good team ever has bad distance runners.

3 - Can you score points for the team at the conference meet? How quickly can you score those points. While a sprinter may not score in the 100 they may be the link to scoring better in a relay. Where do you fit into the team and how are you going to aid in their success? Is the conferance weak that year? Strong?

4 - Throwers almot always do 2, 3 or even 4 evnets. Shot, Disc, Wt throw, Hammer and sometime jav (for some reason the jav seems to be a very unique event in the throws that does not carry over from the other events).

5 - Mens teams, even fully funded, have half the # of scholarships that the womens team does for approx the same # of athletes. So more women will be on more money than most of the men at a similar level of team contribution.

Then the one that surprised me, and made me think. "If your son/daughter were not an athlete would you chose a school based on price or would you chose the best school you could afford? Every student on every campus chose a school for a reason and found a way to go to that school. Unfortunatley athletes reverse that process and make a lot of bad decisions for the sake of a scholarship, no matter how small the offer is".

The moral I took away from our conversation was. If you are a vaulter only, dont put your hand out too far looking for money, no matter how good you are. Look for the school that fits (has academics first AND the team you want). If you can find a school that has the academics you want, has an indoor and outdoor track team, supports the event and has a vault coach, you have found one of your top 5 schools for your list.

[KirkB]

... If you are a vaulter only, dont put your hand out too far looking for money, no matter how good you are. Look for the school that fits (has academics first AND the team you want). If you can find a school that has the academics you want, has an indoor and outdoor track team, supports the event and has a vault coach, you have found one of your top 5 schools for your list.

Very good points, Caveman, but you may have missed the most important one ... for vaulters that are absolutely determined to vault as high as they possibly can ... and assuming that your academic and monetary criteria are satisfied ...

HAVING a vault coach isn't enough. Pick the school that has the BEST vault coach. End of story.

Kirk

[jschools]

"There cannot be a scholarship issue about heights if the school does not offer scholarships. All the D1 schools that recruited my son, that offered scholarships did so on his performance on the track first. If you do not have the the performance standard you will not be recruited in the first place. An athlete does have academic standands that have to be met for any school."

There is a recruiting issue not a scholarship issue, sorry that I mingled those terms. This is a very selective school and to be recruited by this school is an honor. What I felt was to the point of the other posts is that being recruited by a college is more about you fit into their plans rather than you the school fits into your plans.

[kev44000]

... If you are a vaulter only, dont put your hand out too far looking for money, no matter how good you are. Look for the school that fits (has academics first AND the team you want). If you can find a school that has the academics you want, has an indoor and outdoor track team, supports the event and has a vault coach, you have found one of your top 5 schools for your list.

Very good points, Caveman, but you may have missed the most important one ... for vaulters that are absolutely determined to vault as high as they possibly can ... and assuming that your academic and monetary criteria are satisfied ...

HAVING a vault coach isn't enough. Pick the school that has the BEST vault coach. End of story.

Kirk

Kirk I Agree totally.

[rainbowgirl28]

Very good points, Caveman, but you may have missed the most important one ... for vaulters that are absolutely determined to vault as high as they possibly can ... and assuming that your academic and monetary criteria are satisfied ...

HAVING a vault coach isn't enough. Pick the school that has the BEST vault coach. End of story.

Kirk

Kirk I Agree totally.

I disagree with you both. Coaches move all of the time. Transferring is a HUGE PAIN. I did it twice! Not because of coaches but because of environment.

Having a very good coach is a very important factor for a serious vaulter, but too much emphasis placed on this factor can lead to a lot of problems if that coach leaves or if the vaulters finds they aren't the right coach for them.


When I was at my third school, I was ONLY there for the coach. It was not a school that was challenging for me academically (fortunately my life goals were forgiving of this fact). At one point before I was done, I thought I was going to lose my coach. Had that happened, I most likely would have graduated sooner and not continued to compete.

And you know what? A few days after I graduated, my coach was fired. I was basically at that school for the exact same amount of time he was. I don't regret any of the decisions I made in schools, but it's not a series of circumstances that would work out so well for most people.

Even if you are going to a school where a coach has been forever, and you think they will always be there, you always have to consider what things would be like if they were not there. Most vault coaches are assistants. When there is turnover in the head coaching position, the new head coach has the ability to just let all of the old staff go. Some like to start with a clean slate. Even if your coach is the head coach, there are no guarantees. Athletic Directors change. School presidents have a buddy they want in the job instead. These things happen.

Think you'll just transfer if you lose your coach? What if you are in your final year of school and about to graduate in a major you love? What if your coach disappears halfway through the season? Coaching changes aren't always neat and clean with lots of warning for you.

[KirkB]

... I disagree with you both. Coaches move all of the time. Transferring is a HUGE PAIN. ...

RG, that's a ridiculous argument. There's risks in almost every decision you make in life. You should go to the school with the BEST coach you can possibly get ... all other things being equal ... and not worry that there's an OUTSIDE CHANCE that he MIGHT quit or be fired. This is a good risk to take.

Chances are he WON'T quit or be fired. And if he does, chances are that the school's track program already values the PV and will try to replace him with an equivalent or better coach. These things are all out of your control ... so you shouldn't worry about them.

Before you sign, you must take everything into consideration and sign with the school that's going to support your PV career the most. My bet is on the COACH. Assuming that your life is the PV, everything else is secondary.

Kirk

[VaultPurple]

Id think its not the best coach you can get, but the best coach for you. People argue all the time what the best college to pole vault is, saying that maybe they have multiple 17 or 18 foot vaulters. But look at Oral Roberts, they signed the number one pole vaulter in the nation who will most likely immediately make an impact at nationals, and their best vaulter this year jumped something like 15'6. But Dial was a tuck and shooter and that is pretty much what Jack is too, so it fits.

Now was giving a huge scholarship the most effective thing for the team to do, probably not. But their head coach was a pole vaulter so I am guessing his thoughts were a little biased. I mean nothing bad by this but in reality they could have bought three or four 15' - 15'6 pole vaulters for the price of one 18' pole vaulter, and they would have taken 1st through 4th place in their conference. It only took 15'7 to win the summit league last year. And the winner was a guy from Oral Roberts. And for most small D1 schools, the most important thing is winning a conference championship. And since they won the pole vault but only finished 5th as a team, most colleges would use that scholarship money to maximize points, either by getting the most pole vaulters possible that would score, or buy filling other event positions.


Like I said, I mean nothing negative by this, but it is the name of the game. Athletes are on the team to score points, and when you can have 1 scholarship score 10 points, or you can break that one scholarship into 4 25% scholarships and score 29 points (10+8+6+5). What would be the best for the team?

[rainbowgirl28]

Some coaches will take chances on a kid they feel has a strong shot at placing high at NCAAs right from the get go. It's a little risky for both parties. A kid with a substantial scholarship probably has a higher chance of it being reduced/eliminated sooner if they grossly underperform/cause a lot of trouble than a kid on a small partial scholarship.

[Erica]

I am with you, Becca. Find a school that is the right fit for the athlete, somewhere that you would not want to transfer from if vaulting were not in the equation. College is not only about athletics, it is about getting a well rounded education. If vaulting is more important to the athlete, they should go to the best coach and not worry about trying to be a college student. School is a full time job! I have seen many talented athletes go to college and flunk out becaue they forgot the student part, and they don't really get a second chance in the NCAA.

Assuming that your life is the PV, everything else is secondary.

...if school is secondary, you may as well not go! However, I do believe college is the best way to develop as an athlete fresh out of high school.

In choosing a school, a potential student-athlete should consider the academic programs that are offered, the location of the school (hot vs cold, close or far from home, etc), and whether is seems like a good overall fit, as well as the track program and coach.

I didn't transfer in college, but I did have three coaches in four years. It is not unusual for coaches to move to different jobs, even the good ones.

[kev44000]

Id think its not the best coach you can get, but the best coach for you. People argue all the time what the best college to pole vault is, saying that maybe they have multiple 17 or 18 foot vaulters. But look at Oral Roberts, they signed the number one pole vaulter in the nation who will most likely immediately make an impact at nationals, and their best vaulter this year jumped something like 15'6. But Dial was a tuck and shooter and that is pretty much what Jack is too, so it fits.

Now was giving a huge scholarship the most effective thing for the team to do, probably not. But their head coach was a pole vaulter so I am guessing his thoughts were a little biased. I mean nothing bad by this but in reality they could have bought three or four 15' - 15'6 pole vaulters for the price of one 18' pole vaulter, and they would have taken 1st through 4th place in their conference. It only took 15'7 to win the summit league last year. And the winner was a guy from Oral Roberts. And for most small D1 schools, the most important thing is winning a conference championship. And since they won the pole vault but only finished 5th as a team, most colleges would use that scholarship money to maximize points, either by getting the most pole vaulters possible that would score, or buy filling other event positions.


Like I said, I mean nothing negative by this, but it is the name of the game. Athletes are on the team to score points, and when you can have 1 scholarship score 10 points, or you can break that one scholarship into 4 25% scholarships and score 29 points (10+8+6+5). What would be the best for the team?

He could not have gotten three or four 15-15.06 vaulters because it cost $27,300.00 a year to go there. No one in their right mind is going to pay a bunch of money to go to Oral Roberts. They can walk-on at a bigger school for a lot less money. Oral Roberts does not have the numbers most schools do. They compete against public schools in their conference that cost much less. Most coach's I have talked to in the past only care about the NCAA's . This is the first full ride Coach Dial has given to a male vaulter. He has offered top vaulters, but getting them to ORU is difficult. He is actually biased towards quarter milers and sprinters. He has also had several 17+ vaulters at ORU. The school record is 17.09. In the past it has taken over 16.00 to win the Summit League. Last year another school had a 17.00+ guy and he had a bad meet. Jack went to Oral Roberts because of Coach Dial. Jack could have gone anywhere but we are going to the next level with his vaulting and that takes a great coach. Just setting the record straight. I know you mean nothing negative.

[pvdad81]

We chose the smallest offer at the biggest school. I know its early but so far Jonathan loves it. He has already put on 7 pounds. Twice a week he runs in the underwater treadmill. I never even heard of such a thing. They bought a series of 9 poles. cant remember the brand but Jonathan said they were lighter than any pole he had ever used. I can see now that this program offers their athletes alot more than just scholarship money. I cant wait till January!

[kev44000]

We chose the smallest offer at the biggest school. I know its early but so far Jonathan loves it. He has already put on 7 pounds. Twice a week he runs in the underwater treadmill. I never even heard of such a thing. They bought a series of 9 poles. cant remember the brand but Jonathan said they were lighter than any pole he had ever used. I can see now that this program offers their athletes alot more than just scholarship money. I cant wait till January!

Jerry good for you and Jonathan. He will do well. Jack has gone from 9% body fat at 184 lbs to 5.50% body fat to 190 lbs. He is stronger and faster then ever. College training make s big difference. We will see you at several meets at OU this year. Tell Jon to keep up the hard work.