straight pole... Key muscles involved?

[KYLE ELLIS]

I wanted to talk a little bit about straight pole vaulting and what makes a great straight-pole vaulter. I use the 6 step straight pole test with my vaulters (seeing how they can vault from 6 steps with a non bending pole)... And the results are all over the place, and usually being good at straight pole vaulting doesn't always correlate to being good on a bending pole. Using the marks from college boys and girls, down to jr high boys and girls.

I will use myself as an example in this real life scenario
Three vaulters
Vaulter A- 6 step straight pole PR OF 12'3 (GRIPPING 11'6) Bending pole PR of 4.91 (gripping 14'5) Bench Max- 315 Clean and Jerk- 115kg's
Vaulter B- 6 step straight pole PR OF 11'3 (GRIPPING 11'3) Bending pole PR of 4.75 (gripping 14'2) Bench Max- 200 Clean and Jerk- 85kg's
And me- 6 step straight pole PR OF 11'0 (GRIPPING 11'8) Bending pole PR of 5.25 (gripping 15'1) Bench Max- 315 Clean and Jerk- 115kg's

I am just about as strong as vaulter A in the weight room, but he kills me on straight pole... And I am much stronger and technically better than vaulter B, but even he can beat me in straight pole vaulting... Even though I am gripping higher than both. Why do you think this is?? Do you think there is a possibility that I have under developed muscles that are key to straight pole vaulting??? I never did much straight pole work over a bar, or gymnastics growing up. And lastly do you think it would significantly improve my vaulting? I think it was Achtung trying to come up with some sort of chart for potential height based on straight pole vaulting.

Also in the historical forum DJ claims Earl Bell could jump like 13'6 off a 12 ft pole???

[IAmTheWalrus]

It could have to do with your swing. I may be wrong, but I feel like the key to straight poling is to maintain the speed of your swing into the inversion and clearance. Someone who puts a lot of bend in the pole and waits for it to recoil will probably not straight pole very well. I don't know how you vault from a long run or on a straight pole, but if your hips ever stop moving up on the straight pole, I doubt you will vault very effectively. Also, and again this may or may not be what you do, a lot of people do straight pole warm up drills where they takeoff pull in with their bottom arm, get inverted, and then land on their backs, but they never move their hips up the pole. This would probably lead to poor results as well. I'm nooo expert on straight poling, but that's my guess.

[KYLE ELLIS]

I guess its hard to judge without any video, and I don't have much of myslef straight pole-vaulting... And I will try and find some or get some, but bending the pole my hips move up more continous than the other 2.
here is my most recent film from 3 left bending the pole.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ur8oVNmWEkQ

[KirkB]

... bending the pole my hips move up more continous than the other 2. ...

Kyle ... here's a start at some vid analysis of your short run. Sorry for the delay ... the Winter Olympics have come and gone now!

I'm quite impressed with your short run, and I do agree that you keep your hips moving. I doubt that you have much ... if any ... pause in the flat-back. That's very good! You slither (Bubka) up on your pole quite nicely ... but remember that if you have to slither, that usually means that you're trying to salvage an otherwise "weak" vault.

In your case, I think your takeoff must have been in quite a bit ... becuz this was nowhere near a free takeoff ... I think you already know that. But once you leave the ground, I think you could still get a lot more whip out of it than what you're getting. To me, it looks "disjointed" ... like your top arm and trail leg aren't in unison. As you know, you need to pre-stretch with your body tight all the way from your top hand to your trail leg foot, then WHIP out of it ... exerting your force on your trail leg, torso, and top arm ALL AT ONCE.

I still remember that we had a difference of opinion on whether you should initiate this whip from the top (hand) or the bottom (foot) ... so in your case, I'm emphasizing the whip with the ENTIRE BODY. However, I think your lack of vigorous downswing INITIATED BY THE TRAIL LEG is hurting your overall swing. Try what I'm suggesting on a highbar or rings ... then duplicate the feel of that to the pole ... you'll see.

And frankly, I'm not worried about whether you initiate with the trail leg or with the entire body ... as long as you don't just initiate with the top arm ... and leave the trail leg dangling like dead meat on a hook. (Pardon the slaughterhouse analogy ... but I think you get my drift.)

You might think that you're moving that trail leg pretty damn fast ... but believe me ... it's almost passive ... it can move a LOT faster with the right training and mental focus!

Kirk

[powerplant42]

The shoulders have a much bigger role in the fly-away phase... You can make a real difference if you push down HARD and away, unlike with the bending pole (as much at least).

Just an observation.

[vault3rb0y]

Theres something I've found when working on stiff vs. flexible vaults, Tell me if you guys agree with this-

In a flexible vault, As soon as the takeoff is finished in a 3 step, I try to rapidly swing and move my hips upward continuously. In a flexible vault, if I start to swing as soon as the pole hits the back of the box, my swing speed will not line up right with the pole movement to vertical, because I can swing faster than the pole is moving. I end up inverted and pulling before the pole is totally to vertical. The only way to continuously move my hips is to either slow down my swing speed (not realistic), or delay my swing so that when i do swing fast and hard, i can continue to invert quickly and continue to move my hips upward. I've vaulted 9'6" from inside 20ft holding like 7'9", but i found that i need to delay my swing, because if you swing too fast you don't line up right. To me, this is one of the main differences that i personally feel between the stiff vault and flexible vault. So Kyle, maybe your vaulters naturally delay their swing on a stiff vault, while you are trained more as a flexible vaulter (correctly IMO) to move to hips as soon as the takeoff is finished.

This goes against the thinking of the 6.40 model, which i know is supposed to have a direct relation to stiff vaulting. But there are slightly differences, and i've come to feel that delaying the initiation of a continuous swing in a stiff vault is one of them.