hey...
new thread on how we can hopefully stop making the same mistakes....
Allan
If running through or bailing out because your body can't handle a long run on that particular day is your idea of a successful vault session, then by all means, keep plugging away. I'm not subscribing to that logic."
Nor do I!
This is solely caused by the wrong Six Step "MID" based on your grip.................. check where you were on your short run. You should, at most, be back 1-2 feet from that mark... and should only be holding 4-8 inches higher..
Alan....
I said disagree not argue... I guess you meant you disagreed that we are not doing too much short run vaulting... but you followed that with ..
First I am not sure how short run vaulting -especially it there is always an emphasis on cadence - can cause this!
That was/is my point… we ARE stretching and not running with the right cadence..
And to have the right cadence you have to have the correct stride length and stride frequency… which means you have to have the correct (accurate) step 6 steps from takeoff!!!!!! Why you have not supported this or the chart and helped your followers... I'm still befuddled to understand…
I know you say you have to teach running technique before you can change the way a vaulters runs on the runway… but it doesn't matter how much technique a vaulter has doing 20/20 drills (20 steps in 20 meters) they will not have the same, correct, technique if their last six steps are too long… try doing 20/40 drills and you should see and understand what I mean……….
And although i don't disagree with the posters or most that has been posted since my last post, here, about the benefits of short run vaulting, it still does not "trump" (and actually gives the short run vaulters and "excuse" to be below their ability level.) the fact we are doing to much because we are doing it wrong......
the fact that we ARE doing it wrong is reason enough to tell those that are continuing to do so to stop it completely... until they can do short runs correctly!!!!!..........way to much short run or like you said we are doing it (99%) are doing it WRONG. .
that is the point…. And the point of a six stride coaches mark… the chart works even if you are only running 6 steps… try it.. have a vaulter that can grip 12 feet from 3 lefts (6 steps) start at 40 feet….
you stated..
especially it there is always an emphasis on cadence
especially on the importance of accuracy and consistency, rather than an emphasis on speed
"If running through or bailing out because your body can't handle a long run on that particular day is your idea of a successful vault session, then by all means, keep plugging away. I'm not subscribing to that logic."
all VERY good reasons to monitor and even coach ("MID" chart as a tool) using the chart.
And thank you for re-posting what I said….I hopefully explained it reasonably well without using a "if".
Vaulters, (long jumpers, hurdlers, high jumpers etc..) will "strain"/press and stretch until they "feel" they have created enough speed/force to produce their "goal"…
Any time you stretch on the run your "hips' get out of position...(the wrong hip tilt)
Petrov, in his book, talks almost exclusively about the "tilt" or position of the pelvis and spine in vaulting. Granted he focuses on the correct position more from takeoff through the end of the swing but that position is actually more important on the vault approach run… and that is because it dictates the cadence and even the correct takeoff position/posture. If you stretch at all from 6 steps out on the approach run you will not be in the proper alignment (unless you are super human or lucky) and you want have the correct, dead on cadence. If you are out you WILL have to stretch.
I read my first "hip tilt" article in 1967 from Russia… with diagrams.... There have been several articles published since, some you can find in Track Technique, some on the IAAF site. Most of them are for high jumping and long jumping but the same "physics" applies….. in the high jump you can "prance" and position the hips so the last 4 to 6 steps can be faster and in position. in the long jump some jumpers do "prance" to position the hips before the last six "turn over" strides... but it is not neccessary in the long jump and vault to "prance"... with the longer run you can accelerate from 20 to 22 steps (even 14/16/18 and the hips will come into "alignment" as the body becomes more up right.... most american long jumpers, including Carl Lewis used this appraoch for near world record jumps and for greater speed on the runway. Dwight Phillips our current world champion, uses the accelerated run... I'm currently coaching an Olympic-top five in the world long jumper, that runs exactly this way... successfully... i use the same run in the vault and thought process in the vault.
This hip position is an absolute must (physics) to takeoff correctly. and getting the right position and posture, with speed and six steps out is a bonus. Correct cadance (and a correct takeoff) can only be created when the hips are aligned correctly and that can only happen if the stride length (cadance) and frequency is correct.
Here is where i ask you all to... "refer to the chart".........and make it an everyday part of your training..
Alan I don't want everyone to use my chart because I want to say "I told you so" but because I want us to be as good as we can be!!! No excuses………
There have been several great coaches use (over use/obsessed sometimes) the chart to get the exact result you keep saying you/we MUST have… cadence, accuracy, pole drop, posture, free takeoff … all your words have a DIRECT correlation to a correct 6 step "MID" which is based on the force needed to grip a specific grip.. that allows for an average height above grip for that grip and "MID".
I MYSELF had two of my decathletes vault from 5 lefts just day before yesterday… the best one (deacthlete) was jumping 4.50 when I left 2 years ago… he only jumped 4.20 last year!!! in this "short run session" he gripped 4.10 and popped over 4.20 time after time… and looked like a vaulter not a decathlon "pole jumper"…
I know the value of "progressive overload" and the human body physically adhering to the SAID principle --- Specific Adaptations to Imposed Demands… Alan your education came about the time I was getting mine… these are words and processes that should have been "pounded" into your head…. I don't mean literally.. but as a everyday part of your education... this is what "physical Eduacation" was about in the 60's.......
and that meant to "DRILL until the weels fell of" and the athlete was sick enough of the process that they started to do the right technique...
I ran 400 meter hurdler in 1967 and my coasch had me run cross-country and run 2 sets of 6 x 400 meters under 60 seconds with a 5 minute break between and with a minute and a half interval between quarters... i averaged 57 seconds each..
why? because he wanted my body to physically adapt to the grueling task.. was it over done.. i think so
just as we over do short run vaulting... and never get our best men back to 20 steps... and best women back to 18 steps.
Every coach should be following these two progressive - specific principles.....
Get the "accuracy" on (from six steps out) and it will lead you to the correct cadence, posture and speed... accuacy will even give you the best chance to plant correctly, takeoff corrctly and swing corrrectly...
Good luck
dj
