Less is more

[altius]

"The vault technique that i teach is a gymnastic skill" .

That statement opens up a can of worms because it suggests a complete lack of understanding of the fundamental nature of modern pole vaulting.

[charlie]

Sorry that people don't believe my stats, but i do not say what is not true! My masters vault record speaks for itself, and my kids records speak for themselves, just wish others would do the same!

[ADTF Academy]

Charlie, Sorry if it sounded like I was attacking your stats as a coach or athlete till your last post that was not my intention. I know nothing about your accolades and who you have worked with in Georgia. My comment was in terms of you comparing the work ethic of an elite gymnast and that of what the article was referring to.

I did however look a little at your club and stats and the backyard setup you got going on. It looks like your a club coach that does not have 100% control over the athletes from different high schools in season. I'm guessing they come to you out of season or on the weekends if the high school coach doesn't know about it. If the stats you state are based from off season work and training than different story. If its based off in season than I will say there is no way you have never had an athlete hurt unless they do no other events except for pole vault. Maybe not from you 100%, but when athletes go to club and than back to high school and the high school coach is not supportive it tends to lead to one thing INJURY!!!!!!! To say you have never had a kid get hurt period makes me lose credibility in you. Every coach no matter the level, experience and knowledge has had athletes get hurt. Its part of the sport. IF they haven't I'm guessing they are either very passive in their coaching methods, doing remedial work and calling it time well spent or their athletes are too afraid to tell the coach when something is hurt so they just keep jumping anyways.

The article was in terms of how to further reduce the likelihood of injury.

[charlie]

sorry about my lack of credibility--Been vaulting from 1957 till now ---1975 to 1985 Been told i jumped like Bubka befor Bubka except 13sec 100mtr time --won 25 US masters national titles during that time--back to back World Championships 83&85 along with American and World Records--CBS Special pry-or to 84 games --10 yr. Nike product and travel endorsement athlete--- Won Nike Masters Grand Pre in 1983 signed a 6 figure endorsement contract with a pr company in 1984 after the National CBS Special-- @ examples of 2 my athletes-- Lee County ---No Pit--they drove an hour each way 4 days a week---Both are on scholarship at Un Georgia--both are state champions and hold state records--And ,yes, i am GOOD at what i do and i do know what in doing!!

[Andy_C]

sorry about my lack of credibility--Been vaulting from 1957 till now ---1975 to 1985 Been told i jumped like Bubka befor Bubka except 13sec 100mtr time --won 25 US masters national titles during that time--back to back World Championships 83&85 along with American and World Records--CBS Special pry-or to 84 games --10 yr. Nike product and travel endorsement athlete--- Won Nike Masters Grand Pre in 1983 signed a 6 figure endorsement contract with a pr company in 1984 after the National CBS Special-- @ examples of 2 my athletes-- Lee County ---No Pit--they drove an hour each way 4 days a week---Both are on scholarship at Un Georgia--both are state champions and hold state records--And ,yes, i am GOOD at what i do and i do know what in doing!!

Charlie, I think a video of your athletes would answer more questions than any amount of writing from either side of the argument. It would probably be the best way to shut all the doubters down too!

Also just to clarify... you signed a 6-figure endorsement deal as a masters athlete for pole vault back in the 80's?

-Andrew

[altius]

sorry about my lack of credibility--Been vaulting from 1957 till now ---1975 to 1985 Been told i jumped like Bubka befor Bubka except 13sec 100mtr time --won 25 US masters national titles during that time--back to back World Championships 83&85 along with American and World Records--CBS Special pry-or to 84 games --10 yr. Nike product and travel endorsement athlete--- Won Nike Masters Grand Pre in 1983 signed a 6 figure endorsement contract with a pr company in 1984 after the National CBS Special-- @ examples of 2 my athletes-- Lee County ---No Pit--they drove an hour each way 4 days a week---Both are on scholarship at Un Georgia--both are state champions and hold state records--And ,yes, i am GOOD at what i do and i do know what in doing!!

Sorry Charlie - NO ONE doubts your passion and commitment but as long as you make claims of this kind - and never ever provide the performance details of your athletes - in terms of how high they have jumped and not how many state titles they have won, your credibility will always be questioned. How high you have personally jumped or how many records you have set is irrelevant when you present your ideas on technique in this forum. They have to stand up against bio mechanical principles and ideally, be supported by the visual evidence of the athletes you have coached - again ideally from beginner up.

Why can I be adamant about this? Well I began coaching the vault in South Australia in 1986 and coached virtually all the STATE champions between then and 1998 - and the majority of them after that date until I retired in 2003. Now initially we had STATE Under 15/17/19 schools championships in December and STATE under age championships in the same age groups plus the senior or open championships in March. Then it was changed to Under 14/16/18/20 Championships in both cases plus the senior championships in March. How many STATE champions did that give me? I have no idea. But I am certain that if I had turned up in the USA announcing that I had coached 350 or even 450 South Australian STATE champions I would have been laughed out of the country. Note that our STATE records are now; Under 16 4.82m, U18 5.05m U20 5.40m and Open 6.02m for men, and U14 3.59 U16 3.85m U18 3.99m U20 4.10m Open 4.58m for women - all with different athletes. This is a state of 1.2 million and only one rubber track. Incidentally these age groups are those of the IAAF with January 1 the cut off date

But this is all irrelevant if these athletes do not represent the model I am trying to teach. - it is the scientific validity of the model that matters

Finally to open, or perhaps reopen, another can of worms - how important is it how how high a coach has jumped? Well I believe that in most sports the better the performer is or has been then all things being equal they will be the better coach. But things are never equal. Who are regarded as the top coaches in golf or tennis, were they great players - I dont think so. Mark Stewart who coached Emma George to a world record of 4.60 -first ever 15 footer and Hooker to 5.92 but whose personal best was 4.80. Steve Rippon with a PR of 4,40m who coached Paul Burgess to a world junior title and set him up to become a 6.00m vaulter, coached Jimmy Miller to 5.75m and Steve Lewis to 5.72. While Parnov was a world class vaulter Petrov was not. Oh and as many of you may know my pr was 8'113/4" set in my one attempt at pole vaulting in college in 1957. That means that either I have been incredibly lucky or there is hope for everyone regardless of how high or often they have vaulted.

But anyone who really understands the nature of skill in sport in general and pole vaulting in particular, and who also appreciates the realities of skilled coaching, will see why being great at one does not automatically lead to being good at the other.