First Movement After Take Off

[rainbowgirl28]

spend money educating coachs! then there is no need to change anything which could price the pole vault right out of existance.

I totally agree The problem is that people who are not so closely involved with the sport want to see tangible changes. Educating coaches is the best thing we can do to make the sport safer and make better pole vaulters. But you cannot really quantify that. It is easier to just make the pits bigger and/or make kids wear helmets. That way the powers that be can feel like progress is being made.

I have a question for you guys that have been around awhile... would you say that the level of coaching has declined in the past 20 years or so in terms of safety? It seems like pits have grown exponentially bigger and poles have become safer and available in more sizes... but we are still averaging about 1 death a year. So if the equipment becomes safer and safer but the death rate remains the same what does that say about the coaching?

[swtvault]

To Rainbowgirl28 (or anyone else for that matter)

You know, I think that the coaching is getting better and better each year. BUT, not everyone has access or knows about the availale coaches. They are there, but people either dont know, or are unwilling to travel more than 30 miles to find them. Me, I traveled 150 miles one way to work with my HS coach once a week--cookie please. I doubt many are willing to do that. Also, my thoughts are that there is more and more people pole vaulting now, so obviously we can expect more accidents. Do any of you guys know the statistics from the Glory Days????? 1960-to the 80's. God those guys jumped on some shitty setups, and to my limited knowledge very few of them were killed. I once saw a picture of Bubba Sparks jumping at South west Texas in the 70's. Get this, CAST IRON railing surrounding the AT BEST 10x10 pit....No front Buns, and the bit was probably 2 feet behind the back of the box....no...I wouldnt even call it a pit. More like a bunch of shitty old foam pieces stuffed into burlap sacks. Bubba told me that they had to take the front buns off and put them in the middle because they would all get the wind knocked out of them! I think yall get the idea. I also know that coaching was nowhere near what it is now.....the knowledge base they had then doesnt even compare to what we have now. There are some ideas to chew on....I really have no explanation (other than the obvious) why we see so many deaths in our sport. Sure, We can pad everything, put helmets on, you name it.....But something WILL happen again in the future--its that whole Murphys law bit again--leaving us all here to talk about it. Thers my penny on the matter. Happy planting

Geoff

[rainbowgirl28]

Me, I traveled 150 miles one way to work with my HS coach once a week--cookie please. I doubt many are willing to do that.

Sure I have done that from time to time going down to Portland. For most of my pole vault career I have had to travel 45-90 minutes to get good coaching. I think Jodie Mayes and her mom do stuff like that too.

I understand going that far to jump with a good coach... but kids should not have to travel that far to jump with a safe coach.

But something WILL happen again in the future--its that whole Murphys law bit again--leaving us all here to talk about it.

I think we can do better.

[swtvault]

"I understand going that far to jump with a good coach... but kids should not have to travel that far to jump with a safe coach."

Couldnt agree more.....However the lack of good coaches tends to be a serious problem. If ambitous eager to learn coaches like lonestar keep popping up, part of the problem will be solved.

"I think we can do better."

I sure wish we could. I am strong believer that we can drastically curb the number of fatalities, but I think in a sport such as pole vaulting, that element will exist no matter what we do--which can hold true for any sport. Safer=less accidents. Unfortunately statistics show there is always potential for an outlier. Folks, I hate to be so damn negative on this topic, but there is really no way to plan and prevent ALL accidents. Wear a helmet, or jump in a sumo suit...or both! whatever makes you happy. I think the safety measures (escpecially the 3-strike rule and padded box) are great measures. Au Revoir

Geoff

[xtremevaulter]

spend money educating coachs! then there is no need to change anything which could price the pole vault right out of existance.

I have to agree with Tito. People are spending all this energy try to fix an obviously dangerous sport. Anyone who doesnt know this should not be jumping. But it is not the vaulters that is the problem. It is the coaching. If we got better coaches for the vault we would not be having these problms.

Snyder

[lonpvh]

Coaching is a huge problem. I'm even more scared that there are alot of self proclaimed experts out there that are starting to pop up cause they realize they can make a little money doing it and having camps. I've coach this event for 10 years now, and that scares me. I wouldn't recommend 95% of the coachs out there. I'm guessing something needs to be done about that. That is where we are gonna save some people. I'm not scare to kick kids out of camps or practice because they are doing something stupid. My theory is no injuries on my time. Sorry if this sounds rough, it just how I feel. Lon

[gpc3]

90% of the coaches I see are OK, but the problem is that there are hotshot boys who are all about the big bend, at any expense, and their coaches are too CS to stop them, so I agree with you: if one of mine gets a little too 'daring' he sits for a while.

[dubjones]

I feel coaching is the real problem. Smart coaches make smart athletes, it is simple. Accidents can and do happen, but most can be avoided. Unless I am mistaken nearly all of the recent pv deaths were at facilites that did not meet safety standards, ie. no padding on hard surfaces surrounding the pit. Specifically in the rear of the pit, where major accidents occour.
I believe coaching, or coaches, are the answer. A prime example is Bell Athletics. I couldn't begin to count the number of jumpers that run through our facility, or the number of jumps that have been taken there, but the numbers are huge. At a regular camp there are maybe between 10,000-8,000 jumps taken (quick math) but should be close. And that is just campers, not counting locals, for one camp. Over the many years Earl has been coaching, and jumping, not one, ZERO, deaths, Zero, paralyzed, Zero, "serious" injuries on his watch. I am sure it is the same for Jan's camps.
It is my belief that the best way to jump higher is to land safely EVERY time. If you do that, you get another jump, another chance to learn, and you get to jump another day. Pushing the edge is OK, jumping off the edge is stupid.
I beg of everyone in this sport to be SAFE. We are at time where all of this could be ending. The pole vault has given a lot to me, too much for me to see it end because someone is ignoring something as simple as basic safety.
This is my philosopy, and I am sure that everyone can back me up on this one.

[wacky274]

i believe that it is not only the coaches responsibility to be aware of the rules for the vault, but for the vaulters as well....i personally, at any meet where i feel the pit may need adjusting, walk over myself and inspect to make sure there are no hard surfaces exposed, etc.....i'm no great person because i do this, it's that i have just been taught that safety comes first, and my coach has fortunately really pushed that on me, and all the vaulters at our school, and for this i'm very appreciative, cause it has really helped.....please, be responsible and dont be afraid to check the pits yourself...if there's a problem, talk to you coach...we all need to be careful, especially if we want to keep this event around

[titojumps]

I totally agree The problem is that people who are not so closely involved with the sport want to see tangible changes. Educating coaches is the best thing we can do to make the sport safer and make better pole vaulters. But you cannot really quantify that. It is easier to just make the pits bigger and/or make kids wear helmets. That way the powers that be can feel like progress is being made.

who ever the "powers that be" are, weather that means A.Ds. or University Deans, if the vault community makes perfactly clear that the only way to keep the sport safe is to educate coaches, then they will agree. educators like to educate. set up some sort of reward/punnishment for pv coaches. they can go to a few weekend seminars with Earl or Jan or something like that and get a certifacation. if they don't have a cert., they can't have a camp etc., are only allowd to coach as an unpaid assistant, or what ever.

i think it's very easy to quantify coaching ability. how meny accidents/deaths they have, how good their pole vaulters are.

I think in the long run, it will be less expensive and eaiser to educate coaches then build padded boxes and bigger, more complex pits.

dollar dollar bill ya'll.

[ctvaulter]

I have to agree with wacky274. Checking the mats are important. I've being to meets where the mats are a foot back and more. Worse are the pits without the cover. I also like to add, vaulters should be 100% to jump. I've seen too many kids jump on a pulled quad, hamstring, etc..

[PVJunkie]

MAN its amazing what you miss if you cant get to this site for just one day. Some superscout thing at work has dicided tha this board ranks up there with porn on the internet. Scary thing is.........I could still check out what up on maxim.com. Too bad that dang program cant block all of those damn pop ups!!!

You all are right........coaching is the key, but its a much more complicated fix than just talking about it.........all you young bucks and bucketts out there are the future GOOD coaches. Maybe you wont make it to the GREAT title but at least we will be one step closer to safer vaulting. People like Dub, Lon, Tye, myself and countless others who have dedicated their lives to this sport (at least up to this point) are all hoping that more will follow. Tact is the key though, dont go home and tell your old HS coach he/she is an idiot, volenteer to help out and hope that some of it rubs off on them. Hopefully they will be open to some new ideas and learn from you. The best coaches out there are the same ones that will tell you they DONT know it all........the ones that say they do......RUN AWAY FROM THEM. I wont say that none of what has happened in the past year and a half hasent been a step in the right direction BUT people are still going to get hurt, its an inheirent risk in any athletic endevor, but proper supervision/coaching is the backbone to safty. Of couse we could all wear michelin man suits and battle it out at 10', then we wouldnt need pits at all, we would all have to wear a pit to vault. Then and only then would the coach not be a factor.