Who will vault 6.40m (21’) men and 5.50m (18’)

[dj]

dito

dj

[PVFLA]

the 100meters and the long jump give us the absolute best comparitive data.. all events at the level we are discussing use speed, athletic ability and core body strength..

dj

in addition the upper body strength becomes less relevant factor if you think of using natural swing as it is described in 6.40 Model. There are female gymnasts who would do things that no men vaulters could come close.

I agree with everything dj and agapit have been saying. But maybe we should be timing the last 5 meters of a woman gymnast's gymnastics vault instead of using 100 meter times or long jump runs. In my opinion it's about as close to a pole vault run as you can get and even mirrors the free take off better than a long jump.

[agapit]

the 100meters and the long jump give us the absolute best comparitive data.. all events at the level we are discussing use speed, athletic ability and core body strength..

dj

in addition the upper body strength becomes less relevant factor if you think of using natural swing as it is described in 6.40 Model. There are female gymnasts who would do things that no men vaulters could come close.

I agree with everything dj and agapit have been saying. But maybe we should be timing the last 5 meters of a woman gymnast's gymnastics vault instead of using 100 meter times or long jump runs. In my opinion it's about as close to a pole vault run as you can get and even mirrors the free take off better than a long jump.

gymnastic coaches approach me all the time to assist them with the run up. Gymnasts notoriously run slow and as a rule do not have a correct running strucure. 6.40 Model is about maximizing the energy in the system and so so much how it looks.

[VaultNinja]

I don't want to get flamed or anything here, and I'm not gender biased, but I don't think that women will clear 18' anytime soon unless there is some sort of legal training/performance breakthrough for women. I know that women's vaulting is still relatively new, but some elite women have been vaulting just as long as their male counterparts have. They have access to the same coaching and same equipment, but the difference is that men are faster/stronger than women. I just don't see any woman having the necessary physical ability to jump 18' anytime soon, but that's just me.

with all due respect, women that could long jump 22'6" feet and using modern vault model could vault 18 feet. Some of the men I know vault 18' and cannot long jump 22'6". although, most of 18 footers would long jump 23'.

agapit

I agree women can be extraordinary athletes, however you can't compare the long jump and men and women pole vault exactly.
Truthfully a women has to have MORE athletic ability than a man to jump the same hieght. You are forgeting one thing a womans center of mass is lower than a mans. Therefore they are moving more wieght while swinging to invert.

EDIT: My bad, reading a little bit more closely I see that you have partially taken that into account.

[dj]

hey
a women doesn't have to have "more" athletic ability to jump as high!!!

speed is speed..technical efficiency is technical efficiency...

center of mass is relitive!! if center of mass made a difference in pole vaulting... short men vaulters couldn't jump as high as tall men jumpers!! or should i say short men vaulters can jump as high as tall men vaulters..

neither statment has any credibility....

just like saying "gender" makes a difference in vaulting.. it doesn't..

so why would a women have to have more athletic ability.. makes no sense...

mike tully had a very low center of mass.. did very many vaulters with a "high" center of mass beat him?

did not make a difference.. he still needed to get faster to improve.. he still needed to have a "transfer of momentum" at the plant (free take-off) and a high plant and "swing like hell". period..

the women that can grip 14 feet and has the speed to move that grip to vertical... can jump just as high as the man/boy that can grip 14 feet and has the speed to move that grip to vertical... period..

it has nothing to do with male or female

dj

[USMC Vaulter]

if center of mass made a difference in pole vaulting... short men vaulters couldn't jump as high as tall men jumpers!! or should i say short men vaulters can jump as high as tall men vaulters..

neither statment has any credibility....

Actually - height does have alot to do with pole vaulting. A shorter vaulter cannot create the greater angles at take off that allow them to jump on larger poles. Also, just look at the facts - everyone in the 6m club is 6 feet or taller. Height definitely gives an advantage in the vault.

just like saying "gender" makes a difference in vaulting.. it doesn't..

Gender also DOES make a difference. Women are not built like men, they arent as strong, arent as fast, and even their muscle structure is different. You can't ignore this.

I understand that you were making a different point in the origin of the post. I dont know if center of mass plays much of a factor in the vault or not - but the supporting facts you listed and the way you worded them werent really accurate...

[dj]

I’m not sure how to answer here. It seems parts of my answer were connected to the wrong parts of the questions.

First point; I tried to say, and agree, center of mass doesn’t really make a difference…. But, I agree, how tall you are could/can.

Yes, I agree, at the highest level men grow stronger and taller than women. That’s why the men’s world record is 20’2 and the women’s is 16’2â€Â

[USMC Vaulter]

Sorry if my post was asinine. I completely get what you're saying.