Push Plant technique

[JTred]

I started vaulting higher once I started carrying as opposed to pushing. I had to do hundreds of pole runs to get it down though. It seems to me that when people push, they tend to lean forward and according to BTB, running as tall as possible will allow you to run faster.

[pole cat]

another point, sliding the pole only works on the perfect runway. If you try to do this at an indoor meet with a raised runway and a kink right at the box, or at a really crappy high school runway with the track beat up at the lip of the box causing it to jut out, your screwed. You can't do a sand vault like that either. It really limits your ability to perform consistently.

[lonestar]

I'm a proponent of both techniques, and all things being equal, prefer a high pole carry. In defense of pushing though, we did a lot of experimentation with it, and set 9 Texas High School Girl's State Records, numerous district and regional meet records, and taken a Jr. Olympics gold medal using that technique. Does it slow you down? Well of course friction can slow you down, but you're talking about one square inch or less of slippery plastic in contact with the runway. On the other hand, running with one hand on the pole allows much greater use of your upper body in the run and the benefits of pumping the left arm like a sprinter are obvious. We did some runway timing using Peter McGinnis's velocity formula a few years ago, and found our athletes running as much a 1/2 meter per second faster pushing than carrying the pole. One athlete was able to grip as much as 30cm or 1 foot higher pushing than carrying, and went up 15lbs in pole size.

Again, I'm a proponent of both styles. Yes, pushing has its cons, but it is a viable and effective technique, particularly for beginners when you don't have ample training time to break down the entire pole carry and drop for them.

And by the way, in 3 years of coaching over 25 pole pushers, we went to 1 meet where the runway wouldn't accomodate it because of a lip on the box. The kids carried that meet and did fine.

And yes, you CAN do sand drills pushing the pole. We just did them last week.

[mowad1]

Hey, is "JTred" getting tapped in that avatar?

[PVJESS08]

. . . It really limits your ability to perform consistently.

I disagree with your comment on consistency. I can slide the pole and I can carry the pole, and sliding the pole has never made me inconsistent. I guess it just depends on how you're taught. I think it's great to know both methods, then if there's a bad runway/lip you can carry. Likewise, if the wind is crazy, you can slide the pole. Whether you are carrying or sliding, once the pole is planted, the rest of the vault is the same.

[skyin' pimp]

. . . It really limits your ability to perform consistently.

Likewise, if the wind is crazy, you can slide the pole. Whether you are carrying or sliding, once the pole is planted, the rest of the vault is the same.

good for you.. i teach both and one of the reasons to know both is the wind.. i live in fargo/moorhead and we don't even need topographical map cause there's not a hill for about 56 miles.. except for the roads that go under and over some bridges.. yeah, fun.. tx tail my ....

[PVJESS08]

good for you.. i teach both and one of the reasons to know both is the wind.. i live in fargo/moorhead and we don't even need topographical map cause there's not a hill for about 56 miles.. except for the roads that go under and over some bridges.. yeah, fun.. tx tail my ....

Yeah I agree with you - most all of the girls in my club know how to push and carry thanks to my coach (lonestar) and I think its very smart to be able to do both. OMG 56 mph winds --- dang thats one heck of a tail wind! That's just crazy!

[rainbowgirl28]

I guess there are some coaches in Europe that teach this technique to beginners as well. Check out the vault in the middle of this video. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2qOdwcZRNnE

[altius]

Hope you are not demonstrating your plant there RBG!

[powerplant42]

It's a temporary solution to confidence or planting (and wind if it's really strong). If you don't want to carry ever, that's great, but I know of no elite vaulters that use this technique. There has got to be a reason for this. It is due to a decreased running angle, which sets you up to move your body backward at take-off, loss of velocity, and is loss of switch point energy/pole rotational momentum. Friction plays a part too. To lonestar: Perhaps these vaulters had never mastered carrying a pole correctly? Just a thought.

[rainbowgirl28]

Hope you are not demonstrating your plant there RBG!

Haha no that is me demonstrating my obsessive-compulsive grip checking before I go.

[lonestar]

It's a temporary solution to confidence or planting (and wind if it's really strong).

We never used it as a temporary solution to anything. My best girl vaulter at the time simply could not carry the pole correctly due to a wrist injury she suffered in gymnastics and severe inflexibility due to the resulting scar tissue. We discovered through doing one-handed pop-ups that she had a tremendous amount of power we had never seen, and just stuck a bar up one day. After nearly 2 years of being a 10'+ vaulter she jumped 12'10 within 5 months and stayed with that technique for the rest of her career until she was forced to retire due to injuries, setting multiple state records and earning All-American honors.

If you don't want to carry ever, that's great, but I know of no elite vaulters that use this technique.

I beg to differ. Anyone in Reno in 2001 should remember Tye Harvey smoking 5.70 (18'8) with good shots at 5.80 (19'0) using this technique. I've talked to Tye at length about it and he thinks it's the best way to vault, aside from a problem he could not solve. The problem was that he was coming in with so much speed, the pole tip would float across the box (instead of dropping in) and hit against the top of the box. He experimented with various techniques to try to overcome it, but couldn't find one that worked consistently, so he abandoned it. My girls never were running fast enough I guess to have that problem. Incidentally, he discovered this style after a car accident in college wouldn't allow him to carry the pole normally for a period of time. Ask Earl Bell what he thinks about pushing, and you might be surprised with his answer.

There has got to be a reason for this. It is due to a decreased running angle

Decreased running angle? I'm assuming you mean leaning forward slightly. Watch a world class 100m sometime. During the drive phase (first 30-40 meters) what does the posture of a sprinter look like? How long is a vault approach? About 30-40 meters? In a Petrov Model carry and pole drop, an upright, tall run with predominantly frontside mechanics is necessary to complement the free pole drop and set up the takeoff. In the push plant model, it is my opinion you can generate more speed and power with a driving style run with more backside mechanics - which action can move more weight, pushing with the quads (like a leg press) or clawing/pulling with the hamstring (like a leg curl). Also, being able to pump the free arm like a sprinter adds a lot of power to your stride - try running a timed 30 two ways: 1) with your arms braced in front of you like a boxer, and 2) pumping your arms naturally and aggressively like a sprinter. I coached a 5.50+ vaulter several years back who averaged mid to high 9 meter per second ranges in his vaults, with an occasional 10 (usually a miss!). We experimented with him pushing for a while and he was closer to 10 consistently. He couldn't, however, grasp the timing of grabbing the pole at the right moment, plus was in his 7th year or so of jumping, so we decided to leave well enough alone. Bottom line: you can run faster this way, but it probably will negatively affect your takeoff angle.

which sets you up to move your body backward at take-off, loss of velocity, and is loss of switch point energy/pole rotational momentum.

Don't understand what you mean by "sets you up to move your body backward at take-off." How are you moving backward if you already have a slight forward lean with your chest in front of you as you grab the pole and jump off the ground? The only loss of velocity with some (not all) of our vaulters we observed was in their coordination of grabbing the pole. We observed no bodies moving backwards or loss of pole rotational momentum. Hell, we couldn't get a big enough pole in most of our vaulters hands - they kept blowing through everything. My best girl at the time was jumping on a 13'6 170 weighing 135.

Friction plays a part too.

Agreed, but minimal when compared to the velocity benefits mentioned above.

To lonestar: Perhaps these vaulters had never mastered carrying a pole correctly? Just a thought.

You're right, they hadn't. These vaulters were in their 1st-3rd year of vaulting, and we were not strictly adhering to the Petrov model at that time (2002-2004). Push plant didn't work for everyone though - some of them couldn't coordinate the pole grab, others were ridiculed by other vaulters or their high school coaches for doing it. The main issue, and the reason I abandoned coaching it after 2004 was that college coaches wouldn't touch my vaulters that did it (at least very few would). I didn't want to bear the burden of sacrificing my kids' future opportunities just for the sake of proving that this was an effective model.

I now coach the Petrov model (at least my interpretation of it). I have met, spent a week with, and spoken extensively to Vitaly, as well as his coaching proteges (Alan Launder, David Butler, Elson de Souza of Brazil, (and Roman B. via email and this board), as well as several other former Soviet coaches). I believe it is the best model to vault by, and will continue to teach it unless another model is discovered that is more effective. While I believe, as Alan does, that any vaulter of any ability can master the basic elements of that model, I differ in that I'm not sure it's the best model for every vaulter. I'm not alone in that opinion: Read the "Oklahoma Manifesto" Still, I defend our work in '02-'04 and don't feel my best girl would have jumped as high as she did had she used the Petrov model because of her biomechanical limitations.

If Dick Fosbury had not experimented with the flop, would high jumpers still be Western Rolling or Scissoring?