Cutting Poles

[Decamouse]

Section 5, Article 4 - "A Competitor shall not use a variable weight pole, a pole which is improperly marked or a pole" - the instance that it is cut - it is improperly marked - the manufacturer marking is no longer valid. Since in many cases you have served to softened the pole - you have just opened your self to a very large potential liablilty if someone gets hurt. Additionally, if someone challenges the legality of the pole - a real sharp official will disallow it because the markings are not correct. If you don't believe me - call the NFHS -

[vaulter580]

when you cut a pole take a file and round the edges off or you will blow out plugs like crazy............i learned the hard way$$$$$

[PVJunkie]

Can anyone tell me where it is writen in the National High School Rules
that cutting a pole is not legal?

It also stands to reason if the makers of all poles say DONT DO IT then you shouldnt. What makes it not legal is that the markings no longer match the pole. If it was originally a 14' 150# and you cut it 6" it is no longer a 14' pole and who knows what the wt rating is at its current length without reflexing it at its actual length. In the state of CO they DO measure the pole to see if it is the length it says it is. Dont be surprised if you have cut poles and they get tossed. After HS its not a problem. As i have stated before the NFHS is the only organization in the WORLD with the max wt rule and that is what this all boils down to.

[PVJunkie]

Whoops, I mispoke myself. I meant "raise" the flex number (higher flex=softer pole) But it does make if softer in most cases because of what Bryan said - you're holding higher on that sailpiece position by cutting it - you haven't changed your overall grip height, you've just shortened the pole to hold more near the top/above the sail.

And they don't have to know it's chopped

It actually does make the pole stiffer...............think of it this way, if you cut 6" off of a 14' pole..........its now a 13'6" pole and will never be a 14' pole ever again. Yes it is softer than the same pole uncut because you can grip it closer to the top but it is not a 14' pole at its new length. IF that pole were reflexed on the proper (13'6") span it would be a stiffer pole. Now........if you could add 6" to a pole the opposite would be true, it would be a softer longer pole. The key here is that by cutting the pole you no longer have the main basis for the flex system...........the length of the pole. In short dont cut poles.........the ONLY reason to cut a pole is if you blow a tip and chew the bottom up, then you only need to cuta very small amout off to have a clean end to put the new tip on. Cutting to make the pole "work" is never a good idea. Yea there are people out there who have made a good series out of chopping, however if they got the right poles to begin with they would not need to do so. Not to mention if you cut for one person and they end up being too small for the next person you can never reverse the process.................one way or the other you have to buy the right pole.

[vaulter580]

if you cut a 14' pole six inches it softens it
like say it was measured on a 14' scale as a 15.0 uncut
if you cut 6" it may measure out to be like a 15.4(the numbers dont matter)
before you cut the pole it may measure 13.0 on a 13'6" scale but when you cut it it will measure softer

basically what i am saying is that if you measure the said pole on the same scale before and after you cut it, it will be softer after being cut

some poles may not change but they will not get stiffer

[vaulter580]

when i bought my series of poles i ordered them all aprox. 4/10ths bigger than i originally wanted
that way i could measure and cut the poles so that the progression would stay consistant with our BA flex
say i wanted to go from a 17.8 to a 17.4, i would order a 17.4 and a 17.0 and then measure them uncut and then before i cut them measure each one as if i cut 2" and then so on until i get the right numbers then cut and remeasure and they are all perfect jumps and as i go up poles they get longer about an inch ot so at a time so as i go through a pole i can grab an inch higher on the next pole and be holding the same place on the sail piece and they all work the same

[Decamouse]

Brad - agree with most of what is said - based on concept - will it work for people that do not have EB resource or better - probably not - High School - do not even think about it - it will only get you in trouble - elite - we make series just like you discussed for vaulters - regarding stiffer - the same - depends on way to many factors to give unequivocal statements - and if I start in with the anal engineer - long version of the whys - plus new technology - now about not getting on a pole until you cut it then it was a great pole - which had the bigger impact - the fact that is behaved like a softer pole or the less than 2% change in sail piece orientation - stop in some time and I will show you the difference it makes in how the pole bent - and when you compare that change with the human variable - I have no doubt which would overshadow or cloud the effect of the other - good luck on outdoor

[vaulter580]

i agree with what you are saying and i would like to stop in sometime because the whole concept intregues me a great deal
the main reason for cutting my poles has been to get the right numbers and i understand that some poles (same brand, same flex) work better than others(cut or uncut)

and as far as cutting poles, i strongly agree that if someone doesnt have the means to measure before they cut , and/or they dont know what they are doing, it is a bad idea

[vaulter580]

i also have an interesting question about the FX design

from my understanding the fx design was picked from several other designs one of wich was the famous EB "fastback", and the old carbon design. the testing included flexing the pole, and measuring how high it could through a weight into the air(correct me if i am wrong, this is what i heard through the grape vine) and the new fx won. well, it proves that it makes a good catapolt, but what happens when you plug in the other 100 factors that go along with the vault????
like forward momentum, weight placement, etc...
and the carbon placement how much difference does it make?
and what was the flaw with the fastback design?
im not trying to start another arguement i am just really interested in how
this all works

[PVJunkie]

if you cut a 14' pole six inches it softens it
like say it was measured on a 14' scale as a 15.0 uncut
if you cut 6" it may measure out to be like a 15.4(the numbers dont matter)
before you cut the pole it may measure 13.0 on a 13'6" scale but when you cut it it will measure softer

basically what i am saying is that if you measure the said pole on the same scale before and after you cut it, it will be softer after being cut

some poles may not change but they will not get stiffer

The wt rating is what i was refering to. Why would you flex a 14' pole on a 13'6" scale until that hacksaw addiction kicked in or your jumping from length to length in one series of poles. If you have a 14' 155 and you cut it to 13'6" it will be wt rated at a 13'6" 160-165. That was what i was trying to say.

[Decamouse]

Actually - FX - was also a look at acceleration throughout the unbending, plotted the curves of the poles - forces to deflect, a whole slew of things- looked at how to make transitions between poles as smooth as possible -

[Bruce Caldwell]

["rainbowgirl28"]

I know that. The vast majority of vaulters on here don't have the luxury of buying a whole new series of poles in another brand. Most high schoolers are lucky to have the poles available to be able to make 10 pound jumps. And most of the vaulters on here have too many improvements in technique to lose sleep over what brand they are on... myself included!

Maybe one brand of pole will help a given vaulter jump higher. And that brand is going to vary based on the technique the vaulter uses. But until your technique is very good in all areas, worrying about your pole brand seems kind of silly to me.

I guess what I am trying to say, is that for most of the vaulters who read this board and are having problems jumping on a given pole, their solution either lies in improving technique, or choosing a longer/shorter/stiffer/softer pole. Buying the same pole in a different brand is not likely to help.

And going back to the original topic, I don't recommend cutting poles either. You'll probably regret it later when you need a longer pole... and if you don't, a future teammate will!

ALL coaches and vaulters
I realize how expensive poles are. And I agree if you are not jumping over your handgrip, a different brand will not help you!

I NEED TO MAKE THIS CLEAR;

THAT TRIMMING A POLE BY ½â€Â