When do you change pole lengths?

[ec1vaulter]

I have had this question posed to me by several of my athletes and I know there are several ways to look at it. As a general rule when do you look at the possibility of changing pole lengths? I'm not a big fan of holding down on a pole if a different length pole is available to better suit the vaulter's needs.

Here is a list of pole sizes and heights achieved I use as a general guideline:

11' using a 12' pole
13'6" using a 14' pole
15' using a 15' pole
16' using a 15'6" pole
17' 4" using a 16' pole
after that 16'6" or 17' pole depending on what the individual athlete can handle safely.

Currently I am coaching a 10'6" vaulter on a 12' pole, a 13' vaulter on a 14' pole, a 14'2" vaulter on a 15' pole, and a 16'6" vaulter on a 16' pole. This includes both men and women (do you think that different heights based on gender should warrant different size poles?).

I'm curious as to what other coaches think about this.

[vcpvcoach]

Here's my take.

I would rather move my vaulters up to a heavier pole than up to a longer pole and here's why. [Note: the jumper must have good form and landing in the middle of the pit.]

The vaulter must learn to invert and use the energy stored in the pole.

I see too many HS athletes flagging out at the top.

My rule of thumb is this

12' pole - 12' jump=to 14" pushoff (8" in the box+6" holding down on the pole.) Go to 13' pole.

13' pole - 13'3" jump. (8' box+6" hold+3"=17" pushoff) Go to 14' pole.

14' pole - 14'6"

You get the idea. At the HS level, we do a must teach our athletes to use the energy in the pole.

Of course this means that you need a great number of poles for a full progression and a lot of patience because all HS vaulter believe that they will only go higher on longer poles.

[Barto]

Efficient vaulting according to grip height is my rule.

The break even point for bar height and grip height varies according to the height of the vaulter. The approximate numbers I choose to use are:
1.50m(5') tall = 3.75m(12') break even point
1.75m(5'9) tall = 4.00m(13') break even point
2.00m(6'6) tall = 4.25m(14') break even point

For every 1cm the vaulter grips above thier break even point, they should be able to clear 2cm higher.

For every 1cm the vaulter grips below their break even point, they should be expected to clear 2cm lower.

So for a vaulter who is 1.75m tall (5'9") they should be able to clear 4.00m gripping 4.00m or 4.50m gripping 4.25m or 3.50m gripping 3.75m.

A 1.50m (5') tall athlete should be able to clear 3.75m gripping 3.75m or 4.25m gripping or 3.25m gripping 3.50m.

So how do I apply this to pole length? I let grip height determine pole length. I like to grip between 12" and 4" from the top of the pole. When my athletes get to within 4" of the top of the pole we go to the next length. We never raise our grip more than 2" at a time and never go up more than 5lbs of pole.

Hope I didn't muddy the water too much with all of that. I can tell you that I didn't totally invert this stuff on my own. I have stolen 85% of what I know from the best coaches in the world. Different versions of this same system has been working and working well for 30 years and produced many many world class pole vaulters. Hve fun.

[rainbowgirl28]

I agree with Barto that the height of the athlete is going to play a role in how high they should be able to jump over any given grip.

[AVC Coach]

I'm not sure if the height of the vaulter will determine how high over their grip they can clear. Obviously, it will limit their max grip compared to taller athletes. Their are several things the vaulter can do on the pole to get a good push-off.

I've read several comments about energy stored in the pole and I've recently steered away from thinking of it like that. Depending on the amount of material in the pole (fiberglass, carbon, etc.), the pole will recoil with the same amount of force at each given flex percentage everytime unless it's interfered with by another force. I think our goal is to not interfere with that recoil.

vcpvcoach talked about athletes flagging at the top and I think all of us see that, even with some of the advanced vaulters (especially elite women). The speed at which the vaulter swings and moves the pole to vertical has everything to do with what happens on top. If a vaulter just simply gets inverted and waits for the pole to do something for them, they're going to flag.

Don't know how much this relates to the original question about "when to move up pole lengths", but I just thought I would convey some of my neuroticisms.

[Barto]

Morry-

I did not mean to say that the height of the vaulter will affect how much they can jump over their grip in an absolute sense. I meant that the height of the vaulter will affect how much they can jump over their grip WITH A LOW GRIP. I mean a 6' tall 8th grader is not going to jump 12' on a 12' pole whereas a 5' tall kid can. The 6' tall kid can grow up to jump 18' gripping 15'9". The 5' tall may only need to grip 15' to jump 18'.

Sorry I'm rambling

[AVC Coach]

That makes sense Barto. Now I'm jealous of your 6' tall 8th grader. We don't have those in Arkansas.

Back to the original question. I think it's time to go up pole lengths when a vaulter is consistantly moving the pole past vertical maxing out his/her grip on a given pole.

Example: If you have a girl that weighs 108 lbs. and she's capping a 12' 150 lbs. pole and blowing through with the standards burried, it's time to go up pole lengths.

[ec1vaulter]

I think it's time to go up pole lengths when a vaulter is consistantly moving the pole past vertical maxing out his/her grip on a given pole.

I completely agree. I don't like to have athletes move to a stiffer/longer pole unless their stardards are at 80, and they can safely jump on the new pole with standards at 50 or more.

[fchipr]

All those smart guys are steering ya right on in terms of don't go to higher grips too soon. As I say...you don't want to take those bad habits either up on grip or back to longer runs...that doesn't make them pretty habits nor do they go away.

The Buried standards was important...ok critical too !!

I would add one other element that is related to both the efficiency stuff and standards. How long,how strong ,mechically sound and consitant is the run. You ought to be able to jump within a foot of your PR from the short run(5) vs the more tiring 7 or8 step

Get good with short runs first and work the grip issues on those short runs, you'll enjoy it more and live longer

Thanx for chattin

RUN FAST HOLD HIGH and FLY

[science geek]

I don't know about the pole selection that you have, but I don't have very many. I try and move my kids to heavier poles rather than longer poles, but there are times when i have to make exceptions. The girls get 11' poles until they are over rotating them (usually occurs before they jump 10'). I haven't had any girl need a pole longer than 12', but I have only been coaching a few years. For the boys they get longer poles until they get to 13'. They get stiffer poles until they can clear 12' 6 or more. The longest poles I have are only 14' long so they have to jump over their hand grip after that. The other exception that i make is that if they have been vaulting with me for at least two years and they are a senior I let them jump on the longest pole they can safely turn over into the pit (standards at 28 inches/70cm or more)

[fchipr]

You guys are way smart, and your basic guidlines and technical rationale behind your recomendations are all right on and good stuff. Too bad I have not learned metric too well. (thats bad fore a PVcoach eh? )

Just another view on the same principles.

Our basic approach is kinda grassroots like. The criteria is basic: the kid needs to be vaulting on a pole 20-35 lbs over his weight. Standards at 80, blowing thru. We like to hold within two handholds of the NFHS pole limit (which is generally 4-6inches from the top), so we have two full grips of that pole to work with. We raise that grip to kill some pole speed, and if that is not enough, or if the pole gets a tad soft, we move to a stiffer pole.

When we change poles without length change we go up 5lbs and we raise our grip 3/4 to a full hand hold. (try for a pole with equal or less flex #, but whatever we have we use) We raise our grip because we try to keep a relative pole stiffness for the mental aspect of things. We just adjust our step and takeoff another 2-3inches out.

We are looking for not too big a "stiffness-like" increase at once. I lump pole weight, flex and sail piece position all into one catagory that says you need to be: stickin the plant, taking off well and efficient so that you are not only loading the pole thru take off but rolling it over too.

If we change pole length, say 14 to 14-6 its the same criteria, same grip philosophy and same up 5lbs mentality. The exception being, we find that the higher sail peice of the longer pole is worth another 5-7lbs "equivilent" or so , ....so we usually will go from a 7 step to an 8, or 6 to 7 etc when ever we move up in length of poles (in 6 or 7in increments) in the 13' -15' range.

Nothing new. I know. Just trying to support the thoughts of the smart guys before me.

BOTTOM LINE:If your vaulting great, smashing the plant and landing off the back of the pits, while capping a pole 25 or 30 pounds over your weight. Heck even a dumb coach like me can say " GET A BIGGER STICK!!!!!"

RunFastHoldHigh&Fly

[GeorgeN]

The reason flexible poles were invented, from what I understand, was so that we could hold higher.
I raise my vaulters grip every time they look comfortable at the present grip. th ehigher you can hold and still make the pits, the higher you will jump ( vault).
It is a no brainer