I Need of Beginning Pole Vaulting Advice
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- altius
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ADTF Academy - I appreciate your comment "I am glad you continue to come to the Summit even though many coaches don't think you should be there."
Funny thing is, nobody has come up to me and told me I shouldnt be there - they even allow French and Russians there for goodness sake - surely your great allies - the OZZIES - should be welcome. I have been to many countries -usually as a student - and i remain that at the summit - and no one has ever been other than welcoming and helpful. So if there are any brave souls out there who can give me good reasons why i should not go to the reno Summit i would appreciate them contacting me either through this forum or privately.
Well if my coming to the Summit Ps them off then what will they say to a five week tour of the US in June/July involving five major clinics/camps?? That should give them a stroke!
Also folk should never forget that one of the two major driving forces of the Summit is a guy called Steve Chappell! And who taught HIM to vault??? Incidentally i have already told him Im not coming back!!
Funny thing is, nobody has come up to me and told me I shouldnt be there - they even allow French and Russians there for goodness sake - surely your great allies - the OZZIES - should be welcome. I have been to many countries -usually as a student - and i remain that at the summit - and no one has ever been other than welcoming and helpful. So if there are any brave souls out there who can give me good reasons why i should not go to the reno Summit i would appreciate them contacting me either through this forum or privately.
Well if my coming to the Summit Ps them off then what will they say to a five week tour of the US in June/July involving five major clinics/camps?? That should give them a stroke!
Also folk should never forget that one of the two major driving forces of the Summit is a guy called Steve Chappell! And who taught HIM to vault??? Incidentally i have already told him Im not coming back!!
Its what you learn after you know it all that counts. John Wooden
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altius wrote:ADTF Academy - I appreciate your comment "I am glad you continue to come to the Summit even though many coaches don't think you should be there."
Also folk should never forget that one of the two major driving forces of the Summit is a guy called Steve Chappell! And who taught HIM to vault??? Incidentally i have already told him Im not coming back!!
Alan you were the one that told me that at the 2003 Summit.
Thats to bad you won't be out there next year. Who else am I going to hang out with. Maybe it will be like last year. You said you were not going to come and then you did.
I hope that will be the case once again.
- altius
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Sorry - I thought you knew of some folk who had joined the chorus THIS year. Couldnt work that out because all i did was sell books. Did not intend to be there this year anyway but a friend offered me a time share appartment up at Heavenly for the following week - could not give that a miss!!! Reno just happened to be the right weekend.
Its what you learn after you know it all that counts. John Wooden
can't jump
I vaulted the wrong way, and straight poled 10'6" when I was 14.
I straight poled 12'6" when I was 16.
If you don't have the speed or guts. nothing will work.
I learned to bend on a pole 15 lbs heavier them me.
Sometimes a person just can't do it. I did not have anyone tell me how, and I did it.
I straight poled 12'6" when I was 16.
If you don't have the speed or guts. nothing will work.
I learned to bend on a pole 15 lbs heavier them me.
Sometimes a person just can't do it. I did not have anyone tell me how, and I did it.
If you don't have the ability, and you don't have the desire...............
- altius
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Re: can't jump
.GeorgeN wrote: If you don't have the speed or guts. nothing will work..
Yet again the great myth that still bedevils US vaulting. Folks do you sometimes get the feeling that you really are wasting your time posting on PVP? I have just gone back and reread some of the great stuff that has been put up here that can really help improve our understanding of the vault - and then we get a post like this. Simply incredible.
Who was it that said "They dont know enough to know how little they know" - spot on in this case.
Probably get blocked - yet again! for that statement because it is 'not nice', but what else can you say??
Its what you learn after you know it all that counts. John Wooden
- Tim McMichael
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Altius
The less informed some of the posts we get here are, the more valuable the expert replies become. I, for one, would really miss your posts if you stopped, Altius. They are valuable to me and I am sure to many others. Even if I don’t agree with you, I am happy to concede your unprecedented experience, and it makes me take a good, hard look at my own theory and practice. I have learned things and changed things because of your posts and also because of the dialogues that they have stimulated. I did my “Bubka Heresyâ€Â
The less informed some of the posts we get here are, the more valuable the expert replies become. I, for one, would really miss your posts if you stopped, Altius. They are valuable to me and I am sure to many others. Even if I don’t agree with you, I am happy to concede your unprecedented experience, and it makes me take a good, hard look at my own theory and practice. I have learned things and changed things because of your posts and also because of the dialogues that they have stimulated. I did my “Bubka Heresyâ€Â
- altius
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Appreciate the thoughts Tim, I really do. However I was not looking for support in that post - I was just amazed that, after all the good stuff that many people have put up - you included - we seem to have jumped right back to the bad old days of 'grip it and rip it'/"no guts no glory" pole vaulting. No matter the open nature of PVP, those notions cannot go unchallenged because kids lives and futures are at stake.
I increasingly react like this because I have become more and more certain as i reflect on the vault that the secret to consistent development at all levels of performance from novice to superstar is the PRECISE execution of the highly specific movement patterns needed to meet the biomechanical requirements of the event.
In fact I have come to believe that we should be as demanding as a gymnastic coach as we look for that precision. I know Petrov is - and it is why he expects even international level athletes to repeat up to 200 two step take offs in a session to get every aspect of that movement pattern right -- and then to repeat the same exercise in the next session!
Of course that is the reason why he is so successful. Incidentally i suspect it is why Bubka would include 30 plus six step take offs in a training session many years after he set his first world record!
I began to follow a pattern with set routines for even beginners to follow before they were permitted to jump over a bar in any session. Once they were 'hooked' this routine included 8 x 6 walking strides in a 3/3 pattern to 'plant ' the pole; repeated with a jog/repeated with a trot/repeated with a run/ repeated with a sprint -- All done correctly and precisely before they moved to 6 step stiff pole take offs onto the pad. I am well aware that most adolescent boys only want to jump over bars, but even they can be lead into this system. Why did i do this - well like all sensible coaches i believe that without a very precise, controlled and consistent planting action there is little chance for even talented yougsters to have much success.
I am also aware that many youngsters in the US do not have coaches, so near enough has to be good enough for them, and that they can always manage to get over a bar somehow using the no guts no glory approach to vaulting.. But at every opportunity, clinics and camps especially - we should demand precision/perfection - raising the bar so to speak - so that they can indeed raise the bar! More importantly every coach should be thinking like this - not taking the event back into the dark ages.
Before folk challenge these ideas - because if the history of pvp tells us anything it is that some inevitably will, they should take a look at some of our kids shown in BTB - book or Dvd - especially Lauren Eley, a second year vaulter who demonstrates clearly what can be achieved with this approach.
I increasingly react like this because I have become more and more certain as i reflect on the vault that the secret to consistent development at all levels of performance from novice to superstar is the PRECISE execution of the highly specific movement patterns needed to meet the biomechanical requirements of the event.
In fact I have come to believe that we should be as demanding as a gymnastic coach as we look for that precision. I know Petrov is - and it is why he expects even international level athletes to repeat up to 200 two step take offs in a session to get every aspect of that movement pattern right -- and then to repeat the same exercise in the next session!
Of course that is the reason why he is so successful. Incidentally i suspect it is why Bubka would include 30 plus six step take offs in a training session many years after he set his first world record!
I began to follow a pattern with set routines for even beginners to follow before they were permitted to jump over a bar in any session. Once they were 'hooked' this routine included 8 x 6 walking strides in a 3/3 pattern to 'plant ' the pole; repeated with a jog/repeated with a trot/repeated with a run/ repeated with a sprint -- All done correctly and precisely before they moved to 6 step stiff pole take offs onto the pad. I am well aware that most adolescent boys only want to jump over bars, but even they can be lead into this system. Why did i do this - well like all sensible coaches i believe that without a very precise, controlled and consistent planting action there is little chance for even talented yougsters to have much success.
I am also aware that many youngsters in the US do not have coaches, so near enough has to be good enough for them, and that they can always manage to get over a bar somehow using the no guts no glory approach to vaulting.. But at every opportunity, clinics and camps especially - we should demand precision/perfection - raising the bar so to speak - so that they can indeed raise the bar! More importantly every coach should be thinking like this - not taking the event back into the dark ages.
Before folk challenge these ideas - because if the history of pvp tells us anything it is that some inevitably will, they should take a look at some of our kids shown in BTB - book or Dvd - especially Lauren Eley, a second year vaulter who demonstrates clearly what can be achieved with this approach.
Its what you learn after you know it all that counts. John Wooden
- ashcraftpv
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One person making a "Balls to the wall" post does not represent the American vaulting community as a whole. You seem to paint with a very wide brush sometimes Alan.....
There are also others on here trying to point out how dangerous a reckless attitude like that is. I once told a fellow coach from another school that was just starting out coaching the vault that "any idiot can stand there and tell someone what they're doing wrong. A good coach will also know how to correct it in a way that the athlete can relate to."
There are also others on here trying to point out how dangerous a reckless attitude like that is. I once told a fellow coach from another school that was just starting out coaching the vault that "any idiot can stand there and tell someone what they're doing wrong. A good coach will also know how to correct it in a way that the athlete can relate to."
PoleVaultPlanet is coming.....
- altius
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[quote="ashcraftpv"]One person making a "Balls to the wall" post does not represent the American vaulting community as a whole."
It may not - but my experience in six camps in the US this year suggests that many youngsters have been exposed to that philosophy.
Quote" I once told a fellow coach from another school that was just starting out coaching the vault that "any idiot can stand there and tell someone what they're doing wrong. A good coach will also know how to correct it in a way that the athlete can relate to."
Not quite sure what you meant by this but I had hoped that my comments about the need for precision represented an attempt to provide an alternative view - in other words to correct the problem. As the crafty one would say "Waddever".
It may not - but my experience in six camps in the US this year suggests that many youngsters have been exposed to that philosophy.
Quote" I once told a fellow coach from another school that was just starting out coaching the vault that "any idiot can stand there and tell someone what they're doing wrong. A good coach will also know how to correct it in a way that the athlete can relate to."
Not quite sure what you meant by this but I had hoped that my comments about the need for precision represented an attempt to provide an alternative view - in other words to correct the problem. As the crafty one would say "Waddever".
Its what you learn after you know it all that counts. John Wooden
- vcpvcoach
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Let's get back on point
Hi Sebes,
Don't let these coach scare you off. Lots of history on this board.
When I started coaching, attended AAF track clinic in San Diego. Their pole vaulting materials were put together by Jan Johnson. I like his ideas and use his coaching system when starting out with young vaulters. If you can, check out one of clinics or buy his videos. (Jan's ideas worked for me. There are many different points of view. Find one that works for you.)
Buy a video camera and show your vaulters every aspect of the vault, i. e. run, pole carry, plant, takeoff, and so on. They may think that they are "doing it right" but the camera doesn't lie. This might help your girl with her arm and takeoff problem.
For me, I make my vaulters understand that their safety is the most important thing to me. They need to follow my instruction very closely. that bending a pole is not as important as proper form That drill are sometimes boring but it is the best way to improve.
Beyond safety, have alot of fun. I seems to me that kids these days have alot of pressure at school and home to be the best all of the time. Sometimes this gets in the way of learning the complexities of the pole vault. I've had many young vaulters get discourged because they aren't PRing every week. I try to make them understand that many of elite vaulters don't get their best heights until they're out of college.
Good luck.
Don't let these coach scare you off. Lots of history on this board.
When I started coaching, attended AAF track clinic in San Diego. Their pole vaulting materials were put together by Jan Johnson. I like his ideas and use his coaching system when starting out with young vaulters. If you can, check out one of clinics or buy his videos. (Jan's ideas worked for me. There are many different points of view. Find one that works for you.)
Buy a video camera and show your vaulters every aspect of the vault, i. e. run, pole carry, plant, takeoff, and so on. They may think that they are "doing it right" but the camera doesn't lie. This might help your girl with her arm and takeoff problem.
For me, I make my vaulters understand that their safety is the most important thing to me. They need to follow my instruction very closely. that bending a pole is not as important as proper form That drill are sometimes boring but it is the best way to improve.
Beyond safety, have alot of fun. I seems to me that kids these days have alot of pressure at school and home to be the best all of the time. Sometimes this gets in the way of learning the complexities of the pole vault. I've had many young vaulters get discourged because they aren't PRing every week. I try to make them understand that many of elite vaulters don't get their best heights until they're out of college.
Good luck.
BTB
Hey everybody, I wrote a book too. "Coaches Hip Pocket Guid to Pole Vaulting". It has the series of drills that Alan talks about with pictures and text. Some problem solving solutions, a section on when to change poles and it fits in your hip pocket. I gave one to Randy Hunntington at MSU and someone stole it!!
Using the drills I have handled up to 50 vaulters at one time when I coached at a junior high in kent, Wa (where I started).
I have been selling them but I am terrible at marketing! So........
$10 each plus shipping. Check or money oreder is fine. Make sure I get and address to send it to. I did everythingon it with the help of my dear friend Harry Webber.
Rick Baggett
WSTC LLC
Using the drills I have handled up to 50 vaulters at one time when I coached at a junior high in kent, Wa (where I started).
I have been selling them but I am terrible at marketing! So........
$10 each plus shipping. Check or money oreder is fine. Make sure I get and address to send it to. I did everythingon it with the help of my dear friend Harry Webber.
Rick Baggett
WSTC LLC
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