Effective Clearance?

[Tim McMichael]

30" push off on steel. Awesome!

[MightyMouse]

Right now the biggest push on the 6m chart is 121cm by T Mack which comes to about 47.6 inches. Although Burgess's grip hasnt been filled in yet

[skipperjunior]

Ok. I hold about 11'10 and my PR is 12 feet. I know it's not a 40 in push off but I have only been vaulting for a month or two. a while back Rick baggett posted tommy skipper's year by year progression, I wonder what size of pole he used to clear 14'6.

[baggettpv]

He was able to use a 15' 170 or 175 pacer carbon when he was in 7th grade. Held about 14' I believe.
he was about 6' and 160 at the time.
Again I believe...
8th grade he used 15'9" 170 to 180 carbons.
9th, 10th and 11th and 12th grade, 16' carbons. He was moving onto 5 meter poles his senior year but the Nat. record was on a 4.90.

Rick Baggett
WSTC LLC

[dougb]

In 1960 George Mattos cleared 15' holding 12' on the pole.

As far as I know this was the best on an aluminum gill.

[dj]

good morning

i think what this thread shows is that it is the swing that creates the height above the grip..(stiff poles don't throw you.. poles don't throw the vaulter at all) the more horizontal energy means a higher grip which translates to a longer/faster swing which sends the body higher above the grip.. if the run plant and swing technique is correct..... just as a giant swing allows the gymnast to "fly" high above the bar and do flips.

the energy "in" at takeoff is proportionate to how high the vaulter will swing in relationship to the grip....naturally..... that's why my chart doesn't have the vaulter above the grip until about the 12 foot range.. not enough energy input at that level..

can some vaulters swing above a 12 foot grip... yes but their PR is probably higher than 12/13 feet..

my chart has the "minimum" height above grip at each level... if you are holding 13-5 and not jumping 14 feet you are not performing correctly...
and you are performing ok if you are holding 12 feet and jumping 11-6

the chart fits the physics across the board..

but doing the drills and training mentioned in this thread will make you perform better...

dj

[dj]

Good morning

In 1984 mike tully gripped 15-9 and cleared 18-4 from his short run (7 lefts) on a 14.0 flex..

He gripped 16-4 and jumped 19-2 in the trials on a 12.7 flex…

Everything was proportionate…. The stiffer flex had to match the added horizontal speed and higher grip.. the higher grip gave him a longer “swing radiusâ€Â

[PVDad2]

DJ

I’ve been trying to fully digest your ideas on run-up speed, step length and the whole pole efficiency discussion. In your post you say:



[quote]“i think what this thread shows is that it is the swing that creates the height above the grip..(stiff poles don't throw you.. poles don't throw the vaulter at all) the more horizontal energy means a higher grip which translates to a longer/faster swing which sends the body higher above the grip.. if the run plant and swing technique is correct..... just as a giant swing allows the gymnast to "fly" high above the bar and do flips.

the energy "in" at takeoff is proportionate to how high the vaulter will swing in relationship to the grip....naturally..... that's why my chart doesn't have the vaulter above the grip until about the 12 foot range.. not enough energy input at that level..â€Â

[AVC Coach]

I'm not speaking for DJ, I think I just got up earlier this morning. After reading your post, I wanted to comment and emphasize how much a fast swing correlates with a greater push-off / fly-away. In my opinion, the amount of energy at the top will depend on the speed of the swing.

[fx]

and does the speed of the swing depend on the speed at takeoff?

[AVC Coach]

and does the speed of the swing depend on the speed at takeoff?

Having more speed at the take-off will allow for a faster swing. Is it possible to swing faster than your speed at take-off? Absolutely! Can you still jump way over your grip even though you could be one of the slowest humans on earth? Yes!

Having tremendous speed (however that's measured) is obviously a plus, but not required to gain altitude after push-off. Not every vaulter is blessed with, nor will ever have much speed.

You will only jump as high as you can get your hips, which means those hips better be moving as fast as possible through the swing and beyond.

[altius]

The importance of the swing to modern vaulting was dealt with in some detail in Chapter 21 of BTB - it will be revisited in greater detail in the new version of that book. However in essence the swing is the key to flexible pole vaulting - as it was in the stiff pole era. In fact it would appear that Petrov gained many of his critical insights from study of stiff pole vaulters, especially Warmerdam. Among several important insights, the latter said, "So the vault becomes a giant swing carried on and on" and "Novice and expert alike will profit in coordinating their efforts into one action of a giant swing". The swing is critical because stiff pole vaulters clearly could not store energy in the pole and had to use a continuous chain model of energy input/technique to keep the pole moving forward.

Given that elite stiff pole vaulters could manage a differential of 30 inches -and Doherty quotes 39 inches for the best he knew of - clearly the swing was a major factor in the overall success of the jump. Unfortunately when the flexible pole arrived vaulters became obsessed with bending it - not driving it up and forward as the stiff polers had to do.

So as I suggested in BTB, coaches would do well to think of the flexible pole as simply an infinite series of straight poles - first shortening and then extending through the vault - and build the key elements of straight pole technique into their methods. This means a take off which is out not under, a long whipping swing, and a shortening of the body - but not a tuck -as they continue the swing into inversion.

Understanding these principles will also help coaches appreciate the logic of the free take off where the pole is straight and unloaded at the instant of take off - unlike the methods of the majority of vaulters who deliberately try to bend the pole at take off. They will also see that a take off which is under - again approximately 80% of vaulters - must have a negative effect on the swing and therefore the efficiency of the jump.

I know that the revisionist historians out there will immediately claim that this has all been 'common knowledge' for at least the last fifty years. If this is so I will simply ask, 'why those experts have not been spreading the word all this time and so preventing the vast majority of young vaulters from going down technical dead ends?' IE Taking off under, taking off flat, not finishing the take off in their haste to invert, swinging into a tight tuck under the pole, etc!