Remember when Alan Launder at the Summit said....

[ashcraftpv]

i think one of the main biggest differences between American vaulters and European vaulters is the culture you also need to look at how young the europeans are when they started and how strick their coaching might be in America it is nothign like that we tend to start later hopefully that will change

I agree. The support system over there is much better than it is over here. pLus, i thnk they just get better coaching at a younger age than we do over here. Most kids don't start vaulting until they get into HS over here.

[achtungpv]

It doesn't matter when you start, it's how you start and that is the biggest disadvantage american vaulters face.

[lonestar]

It doesn't matter when you start, it's how you start and that is the biggest disadvantage american vaulters face.

Exactly my point

[mowad1]

To do things the European way would not work here. It would take away from the American liberty of Freedom. There are way more kids that want to be good here. There are good coaches here but the bad ones make the news. The athletes from other countries that have accomplished what they have were easily the best athletes in their respective country. This is not the same here. Atheletes over there obvioulsly make mistakes as well.

I think our system is the way that it is going to be and we make the best of it. It is too easy to criticize, but that is again that freedom that other countries don't have.

What is the big hurry with development? If you don't reach a certain ability level in Europe by a certain age then it is quite simple what you do, QUIT.

Not here though and thank God for that.

[lonestar]

To do things the European way would not work here. It would take away from the American liberty of Freedom. There are way more kids that want to be good here. There are good coaches here but the bad ones make the news. The athletes from other countries that have accomplished what they have were easily the best athletes in their respective country. This is not the same here. Atheletes over there obvioulsly make mistakes as well.

I think our system is the way that it is going to be and we make the best of it. It is too easy to criticize, but that is again that freedom that other countries don't have.

What is the big hurry with development? If you don't reach a certain ability level in Europe by a certain age then it is quite simple what you do, QUIT.

Not here though and thank God for that.

We're not talking about liberty and freedom here. Government subsidized training will never happen in the U.S. An eastern European model sports school system would be very difficult to pull off here. Gymnastics may have something along those lines here, but the demographic is generally a lot different than in track and field.

The point is, they're getting better quality coaching from the beginning, and our kids are generally not. Clubs offer a lot more than most junior highs and high schools can, but not everyone has geographic or financial access to a club. If we're going to get our juniors jumping higher and our elites hitting their potential sooner, then they need to learn correctly from the very beginning. The only way to ensure that they're getting sound coaching in their schools is through education. The problem is, many coaches aren't motivated or interested enough to educate themselves about the sport beyond the bare minimum. How do we get these coaches educated? Follow Washington state's example and require high school coaches to attend certification clinics to be eligible to coach the vault. It would be a better way to address the safety issue than just adding more pads, and overall performance would be enhanced. Then take it a step farther and extend it to junior high schools as well. Sounds like a project for the USATF Pole Vault Development Staff.

And what is the hurry with development? Many of our emerging elites can't financially afford to vault after college. They have to get jobs, which cuts training time down, and many simply burn out and quit. We have a lot of unrealized talent in this country because of a lack of an adequate support system. Since government subsidization is out of the question, they need sponsors, early in their post-collegiate careers. What was Hartwig's pr when he graduated? Probably not high enough for sponsorship. He was determined enough and had the resources to continue to make a run at it successfully, but not everyone can. There's also a mental maturity factor involved. It takes a long time to "figure out" this sport. If you don't figure it out until your 30's, you're staring at the decline of your peak physical ability. Had Jeff jumped 6.00m when he was say 24, what could he have ultimately jumped with 10-12 more years of a healthy body to work with instead of 5-6 years?

The point is, we don't have to be communists to jump high. We just need to teach sound technique to our kids from the very beginning, with a strong emphasis on proper takeoff.

[achtungpv]

To do things the European way would not work here. It would take away from the American liberty of Freedom. There are way more kids that want to be good here. There are good coaches here but the bad ones make the news. The athletes from other countries that have accomplished what they have were easily the best athletes in their respective country. This is not the same here. Atheletes over there obvioulsly make mistakes as well.

I think our system is the way that it is going to be and we make the best of it. It is too easy to criticize, but that is again that freedom that other countries don't have.

What is the big hurry with development? If you don't reach a certain ability level in Europe by a certain age then it is quite simple what you do, QUIT.

Not here though and thank God for that.

Jeez, where do you get your propaganda from? 1950s newsreels? The only major difference between the euro & US system is that the euro system is club based not school based. The big benefit is that if they start with a good coach at 13 they have the opportunity to stay with that coach forever. Everyone there is free to compete as long as possible regardless of talent. You could say that the US is LESS free that Europe in that if you don't have the talent to go past high school then you're SOL. In Europe you can compete in the club system forever.

There were exactly 3 sports systems that identified athletes at a young age...East Germany, USSR, and China. 2 don't exist anymore.

[CowtownPV]

The system is not the only problem. The main thing is that most little kids in America are out at the litttle league baseball and football fields trying to become the next major league allstar with thier daddys dreaming of them playing on TV someday. Thats not the case in Europe. Track has always been bigger in Europe and always will be. If there was more interest in track there would be more coaches, clubs etc. Try and find a good track club for a 8 year old kid and then see how many choices of football or "select" baseball teams there are. I have Jr high kids dads who don't want them to miss baseball practice to go to a track meet. All that said I still think we are doing a better job here in America than people give us credit for.

[mowad1]

"There were exactly 3 sports systems that identified athletes at a young age...East Germany, USSR, and China. 2 don't exist anymore."

I guess that I will focus on this comment. Are you saying that in Russia and Ukrane today they don't identify talent at a young age? Are you also forgetting that in the USA we identify talent in gymnastics and basketball, to name a couple, at a very young age?

I think that you are a bit mistaken. Germany may not identify talent at a young age anymore, I don't know, but where have they been of late?

I am not saying that is what we in pole vaulting need to do either. You don't need great coaches at an early age, just good ones which I think we have. A mandatory coaching certification program may be good, but are there no bad coaches in the state of Washington?

Jeff Hartwig may or may not have been better if he had jumped 6.00 earlier but he is still the American record holder with more meets over 19' than any active vaulter. I think that it worked out as good as it could have for him.

[lonestar]

Are you also forgetting that in the USA we identify talent in gymnastics and basketball, to name a couple, at a very young age?

Where is this taking place and how? I haven't seen it. From what I've heard of the eastern european system, kids were tested in a variety of athletic skills and directed towards sports which they showed the most potential for, not tested for a specific sport.

You don't need great coaches at an early age, just good ones which I think we have.

Been to many junior high meets lately? It's a miracle if half of them don't land in the box, and the ones that make the pit are picking up so many bad habits that they have a career of more unlearning and reprogramming ahead of them than they do refining technique.

A mandatory coaching certification program may be good, but are there no bad coaches in the state of Washington?

I'm sure there are, but unfortunately education is not a failsafe. There are lots of educated dumbasses in the world. Still, even if only 1 out of 10 coaches who took a certification clinic benefitted from it, that's one more reduced chance of a catastrophic injury occurring and increased chance of vaulter success happening.

Jeff Hartwig may or may not have been better if he had jumped 6.00 earlier but he is still the American record holder with more meets over 19' than any active vaulter.

Absolutely, his career, however late it may have taken off, has been an extraordinarily successful one.

I think that it worked out as good as it could have for him.

We'll never know, but how many other emerging elites will fall through the cracks because they don't have the resources available to them that Jeff had, and they're not good enough at a young enough age to secure a sponsor to afford to train?

[VaultNinja]

Trying to be an "emerging elite", myself, I must agree with the last part of your post, since I have to work full time and train the rest of time, and I still can't seem to afford to travel to meets where I can find competition and still pay my bills.

However this topic is a little off I think. I don't think we need to focus so much on the fact that US vaulters peak at older ages. Whats the difference between jumping 6m at 20 years old and 30 years old. The US is the only country in history to have 3 6m jumpers, not to mention the fact that they are all still active and kickingass. We may not have the wold record (yet) but Tim and Toby have shown us that it is definetally not impossible, even with Bubkas bulls*** "record protector" short pegs.

I do agree that if kids are going to jump at such a young age(or whatever age), there should be a stronger emphasis on safety and proper technique, before anything else. But how do you control that? It is the mission of the entire pole vault community to get out and solve this problem. Sitting around and talking about it does no good if there is no action. And there are people who have dedicated themselves to that task, and things are getting better.

[lonestar]

The US is the only country in history to have 3 6m jumpers

Weren't Tarasov, Trandenkov, and Gataullin all Russians? And if you called them Soviets at one time, then you could throw Bubka and Markov in the mix.

I do agree that if kids are going to jump at such a young age(or whatever age), there should be a stronger emphasis on safety and proper technique, before anything else. But how do you control that?

You're right, it is difficult to control. I feel that mandatory coaching certification is a step in the right direction.

It is the mission of the entire pole vault community to get out and solve this problem. Sitting around and talking about it does no good if there is no action. And there are people who have dedicated themselves to that task, and things are getting better.

You're right, it is getting better. We need more people involved though, more people attending camps and clinics, persuading state associations and the NFHS to adopt mandatory coaching certification. How do we do that? We need the leadership(safety chairman, development staff, regional chairmen) to tell us how.

[VaultNinja]

The IAAF website says that Gataullin is not Russian.

Athlete: Radion Gataullin
Country: UZB
PR: 6.00m

Whats UZB?